Fear Does Not Equal Respect - Page 3 - The Horse Forum

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post #21 of 43 Old 08-08-2013, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by greentree View Post
I am not so sure that horses actually know fear. It may just be another human emotion we put on them. They spook, yes, but fear is different from startle reflex. They usually turn around and investigate what startles them.

Nancy
human emotion?

We are all animals.Horses may have less complex reasonings behind their emotions, but something like FEAR is not exclusive to humanity. Without a fear response, there would be a lot less animal diversity IMO....
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post #22 of 43 Old 08-08-2013, 11:53 PM
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With the exception of neurological/physiological problems. All behavioral issues stem from fear, or pain.

"We can not solve the problems that WE have created, with the same thinking that created them."
- Albert Einstein -
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post #23 of 43 Old 08-08-2013, 11:59 PM
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With the exception of neurological/physiological problems. All behavioral issues stem from fear, or pain.
Please elaborate how weaving, cribbing, pawing, kicking, biting, squashing (yes squishing people) all stem from fear or pain. I do believe your 'observation' is a little on the narrow side.
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post #24 of 43 Old 08-09-2013, 12:02 AM
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Be happy to! But too late tonight. BBL tomorrow.

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post #25 of 43 Old 08-09-2013, 12:59 AM
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Fear needs patience, disrespect needs discipline.
What I'm going to say here is you have to know the difference between fear and disrespect.
Fear needs patience, and a leader to say everything is okay. Disrespect needs a kick in the butt to say 'hey, that's enough!'. The one thing I do not do when disciplining though is smack a horse with my hand.
The polite way to do this though, so a horse doesn't see it as rude in return, is to gently ask them to stop the behaviour the first time, and get firmer the next. When watching horses in herds, they always give each other a warning before they follow through, giving the other horse the chance to correct his behaviour before punishment happens

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post #26 of 43 Old 08-09-2013, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Muppetgirl View Post
Please elaborate how weaving, cribbing, pawing, kicking, biting, squashing (yes squishing people) all stem from fear or pain. I do believe your 'observation' is a little on the narrow side.
Actually, weaving and cribbing stem from being kept indoors too often. The horse gets bored and doesn't know what to do with himself, thus developing these nasty little habits
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post #27 of 43 Old 08-09-2013, 01:21 AM
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There was once a master horseman of some renown who had three senior students. He was getting older and wanted to retire, and so devised a test for the three students to see who would be his successor and take over his long-established business and clientele. In a round pen was placed a fierce stallion, the kind that would bite and paw you to the ground if you weren't careful (like that one in the movie Buck) and each student was asked to enter the corral in turn.

The first student was courageous and determined and entered the pen with a bull whip to keep the horse from killing her, and with great energy and a lot of dust she managed to drive that horse off until they were both breathing hard and covered in sweat - but the horse was at least not attacking. He had learned who was boss.

The second student took one look at the sight of this horse charging the fence and trying to bite and kick any passerby and decided that the horse was a lost cause and that it wasn't worth the risk of going in there with him.

The third student simply walked into the corral, slipped the halter on the horse, and led him out as if nothing were at all amiss.

The third student was made the successor.
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post #28 of 43 Old 08-09-2013, 01:31 AM
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If you can't tell which one is the leader? Than you don't know much about horses is all I can say.

While they may share and play there is one leader.

You just don't know what to look for.

As for establishing that relationship? Please. It doesn't work that way. You are not a horse and they are not a human.
It is not always easy to say which is leader.

I had a herd of five mares with foals at foot. Prior to weaning I would add the previous years yearlings and my little mare to the herd. It would take less than a day for the foals to be alongside my mare, using their mothers for mobile milk bars. Come feed time my mare would always be last to get a feed bowl. She would have at least two or three foals with her.
Anyone observing would say she was last in pecking order but, when others finished feeding they would push lower horses away from their feed but if they went near her. The look she gave them was enough to make them change direction.

Some years after we cut back on breeding, I was feeding the horses. As usual. The bossy mare was first to the feed. My old mare instead of just wandering to a feed, kept chasing the boss mare around and around. No kicking or biting, she just followed her from one bowl to another, ears back and drove the bossy mare away.

You could stand for a long time observing that herd and never guess who the real leader was.
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post #29 of 43 Old 08-09-2013, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Nokotaheaven View Post
Actually, weaving and cribbing stem from being kept indoors too often. The horse gets bored and doesn't know what to do with himself, thus developing these nasty little habits
With cribbing this is not always the case!

I have had young horses that have started this as yearlings whilst out in fields 24/7 No other horse around cribbed.
It can be an inherited tendency.
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post #30 of 43 Old 08-09-2013, 01:13 PM
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There is some evidence to suggest that cribbing and other "stereotypic behaviors" are the result of a condition similar to obsessive compulsive disorder. Some cats with display this with grooming (groom themselves bald). In which case, we are dealing with multiple factors and we can't fit them all in the same box.

I disagree that fear needs "comfort" fear needs to be allayed but not encouraged. As an example, people with growling dogs always say "its okay, don't be scared snookiums, mommy's here" in a really sweet voice. This rewards the dog and tells it that its okay to behave that way. As opposed to a ignoring the behavior. A horse example is that stallion in Buck when he is trying to load it into the trailer. The owner is hanging in the trailer saying "come on honey, get in the trailer". Mr. Brennaman has to tell her to pipe down and let him work. He loads the horse without using his voice but using the horses desire to escape the flags. So, use what fits the situation.
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