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Fear Does Not Equal Respect

This is a discussion on Fear Does Not Equal Respect within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        08-29-2013, 12:32 AM
      #41
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Castles in the Air    
    Thank you to all for your thoughts on this. I thought I might make it clear that while I detest any person outright mistreating their horse, I do not condone pushy, disrespectful horses either. I simply will not tolerate being told what to do by any of my horses. If I correct, I do just that. I get in, get the job done and get out. I don’t nag and I accept that I need to keep a lid on my frustrations if I want to maintain a relationship with my horses based on respect and trust. I always give my horses a chance to do the right thing using a light signal (just body language). If I do not get the answer I want, I increase the strength of the signal using other aids until the horse responds in an acceptable way. When I want to increase signal strength I’ll combine the movement of my stick with my body language. On rare occasions the string on my stick has made contact with the horse’s hindquarters since I don’t allow my signals to be ignored. Again, I say what I have to say, once...and get out. That’s the process I use when I know the horse is capable of easily making the right choice. If he is not capable of easily making the right choice (e.g. If learning a new exercise) then I may need to backtrack the training to the point where the right answer comes easily. I’ll continue to ask for more as he gets better. This builds his confidence and trust and in the end progress is faster.
    I think everyone agrees that it's best to use the lightest cue possible. What I see in some folks training in NH methods is that they do use a light cue, then a less light, then a sort of light, then a heavier, then they push the hrose, then he moves. Almost every time.
    They spend so much time in what I call "the grey" area. The horse learns to tolerate the grey area, something which horses don't normally like. They like things black or white. But, if the trainer always goes through step one, two , three, four, five, six with the same speed, intensity , that is a LOT of gray before the trainer actually expects a result .

    ETA and I should be honest and say that I am guilty of this kind of nagging from time to time myself.
    Beling likes this.
         
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        08-29-2013, 12:46 AM
      #42
    Showing
    I read this thread awhile ago but since then have forgotten what was said.

    So this is said completely of my own interpretation of the title of this thread.

    To me, when a horse respects you.. it's not because it fears you (though that may be how SOME choose to work with horses) it's more it has gotten to a place where it does not want to feel discomfort and therefore will make choices to stay in "good standing" with its handler. Then that usually branches off into eager to please the handler, to avoid any discomfort.

    The only analogy I can think of is when you have just started a new job and getting to know your new boss. You have no idea how they are, what is acceptable... etc. You have the upper hand in that you can talk to them to find out (asking them directly) but so does a horse: in his/her actions and your reactions.

    For us, as we're getting to know that new boss we may come across as very ladeda, which evokes a stern talking to about "professionalism" so we may change to please our boss by becoming more of a professional, instead of chilled out and 'whatever' about things.

    Now for a horse.. if you want him to go forward so you put leg on.. and he backs up when you want him to go forward, that isn't what you want so maybe he gets a swift kick to snap him out of that mindset.. well that wasn't very nice, so he knows NOW that isn't what he should be doing as it brought him discomfort so hopefully he tries something else until he finds that "release."

    That's how I see it. It starts as avoiding discomfort but then transforms into "wanting to please his/her handler"
    Foxhunter likes this.
         
        08-29-2013, 03:59 AM
      #43
    Super Moderator
    I like the anology of Sky's.

    I always say that nothing can be taught if the recipient does not want to learn.
    My method is the three Fs - FIRM, FAIR and FUN. It is up to the 'pupil' as to whether it is the easy road or the hard.

    If I have raised a horse from a foal then it is going to accept all that is done to it. There might be a few 'What ifs?' But nothing major because they know that it will occur anyway.
    I like anything to work things out for themselves so, the 'what if's' are answered by the pupil themselves.
    Say an older foal decides not to lead and puts on the brakes, I will apply pressure to the halter and keep that pressure on until it yields to it. No hassle, just let it work it out, yield to the pressure and it goes away. I never have any problem teaching them to tie as they learn this very early on in life.

    Where the fear and respect issue comes into play is correcting the horse that has got away with blue murder.
    A horse that has learned it is stronger than a human, is a dangerous animal. A horse that has learned that if it threatens to kick or bite the human will back down, is a dangerous one. The horse that has learned that if it bulks, bucks or rears and refuses to go where it is meant to go, is a dangerous one.

    I have all the patience in the world to teach something new to anything, if some method doesn't work then I will change my teaching to something else. However, of anything is taking the Michael, then I am not afraid to correct and correct hard.

    The horse that swings around and threatens to kick me will get set up to do it a second time, and I will then put the fear of me into it. It will learn on one hard lesson that kicking is a NO NO.

    On the other hand there can be times when a horse is difficult because it is trying to say something and it is not being listened to. An example of this would be a horse that is difficult to tack up but respectful in all other ways. It could be that it is saying "this is going to hurt." and things like tack fit need to be looked at.

    As I said earlier, respect is a form of fear, in that you have the wish to please because you will be letting the other down if you do not. It is not terror at all.

    All training is on going, let the little things slip and the major issues start to appear.
         

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