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Friendship Training does work

This is a discussion on Friendship Training does work within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        01-27-2012, 09:03 PM
      #31
    Foal
    Smrobs, is this horse paddocked with others? You mentioned you have had other 'ferel' horses. If he? Is paddocked with these other horses it may be making it harder to gain his trust. Humans have a different scent then another horse. Ultimately we are "predators" and the herd instinct is natrually to run away. You say he is approachable with treats, so he does have an element of trust - a start. You could try keeping him in a seperate paddock (or with only one other companion) and spending ALOT of time with him. Give him a reason to want human company other then another horse. Hope that makes sense
         
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        01-27-2012, 09:08 PM
      #32
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    You could try keeping him in a seperate paddock
    I'm sorry if I'm getting this wrong, but isn't this actually pressuring a horse into relationship, not letting a friendship to evolve naturally, and against his natural needs?
         
        01-27-2012, 09:38 PM
      #33
    Trained
    Very interesting, thanks for all the explainations !
         
        01-27-2012, 09:41 PM
      #34
    Trained
    I still see what you have described, to be a pressure-release system. Pressure does not need to be physical contact, just like the dominate horse in a relationship can simply give 'a' look at the submissive horse, and the submissive horse moves away. When the submissive horse moves away, the dominate horse doesn't look at him anymore.

    So by standing in front of a horse, saying 'back' and waving your hands around a bit, that IS pressure. The horse is wondering what on earth you are doing and steps back. You then stop waving and give him a pat - release of pressure.
    How is this, any different from any other pressure-release system?

    Pressure-release does not need to be an escalation in pressure, there are many ways to skin a cat.
    Some horses respond best to escalate pressure, others learn best if you ask, then back off, and ask again, like your own horse.
    It is STILL pressure-release. I don't know of any single training method that does not use some form of the pressure-release system --- because this is what works for horses. They put some kind of pressure on one another, move away from the pressure, and then they are comfortable. You cannot ask a horse to do anything, without putting some degree of pressure on them. It is not possible.
    Scoutrider and Fargosgirl like this.
         
        01-27-2012, 10:28 PM
      #35
    Foal
    [QUOTE=chrisnscully;1329629]Sounds to me as if FT is just positive reinforcement training - like clicker training is.]

    My understanding is FT has much in common with positive reinforcement training, but that the kind of relationship it develops is different. There are a couple of people in the FT group who had used CT and positive reinforcement extensively before FT, and they tell me FT 'gets you to a different place'.

    Love the story about your horse.
    Cheers
    F
         
        01-27-2012, 10:36 PM
      #36
    Foal
    [QUOTE=Kayty;1329673] So by standing in front of a horse, saying 'back' and waving your hands around a bit, that IS pressure. The horse is wondering what on earth you are doing and steps back. You then stop waving and give him a pat - release of pressure.
    How is this, any different from any other pressure-release system? ]

    Hmmmm, I see what you mean, maybe, it could be described as very light pressure, not sure. The hand gestures are very small. Maybe it's pressure & release & positive reinforcement, as he gets the treat as well?

    It is surely much much softer in approach than anything anyone local tried to show me, and much softer than the lowest levels of pressure shown to me by a local NH clinician. Some of the other horses seemed to go ok with that, but my boy didn't.
         
        01-27-2012, 10:39 PM
      #37
    Yearling
    I don't know about friendship training, but Mudpie sure is my best friend(:

    FrancesB likes this.
         
        01-27-2012, 10:42 PM
      #38
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Spook    
    smrobs, is this horse paddocked with others? You mentioned you have had other 'ferel' horses. If he? Is paddocked with these other horses it may be making it harder to gain his trust. Humans have a different scent then another horse. Ultimately we are "predators" and the herd instinct is natrually to run away. You say he is approachable with treats, so he does have an element of trust - a start. You could try keeping him in a seperate paddock (or with only one other companion) and spending ALOT of time with him. Give him a reason to want human company other then another horse. Hope that makes sense
    Yes, he is paddocked with others but they are a long way from feral LOL, I nearly have to beat them off with a stick when I go into the paddock as they all come up looking for scratches.

    The funny thing about this horse...he is broke and is a very nice saddle horse. You can trust him...mostly (he's a challenging personality but an experienced rider gets along great with him), and he does his job, he just prefers to be left alone. He doesn't even like to be groomed.

    We've had more success with just accepting him as he is rather than working our butts off trying for a goal that will likely never happen. When it's time to work, we go to work. When we're done, we're done. I don't do him like I do my others and spend a few minutes after a ride just scratching and petting on them. Spending more time with him just makes him grumpy and more standoffish/hard to catch LOL.
         
        01-27-2012, 11:02 PM
      #39
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Spook    
    smrobs, is this horse paddocked with others? You mentioned you have had other 'ferel' horses. If he? Is paddocked with these other horses it may be making it harder to gain his trust. Humans have a different scent then another horse. Ultimately we are "predators" and the herd instinct is natrually to run away. You say he is approachable with treats, so he does have an element of trust - a start. You could try keeping him in a seperate paddock (or with only one other companion) and spending ALOT of time with him. Give him a reason to want human company other then another horse. Hope that makes sense
    Spook, my paint mare is like a horse smrobs mentioned. My parents feed her every day, give treats, and can approach most of the time, but she doesn't want to socialize with them, be groomed, and even with treats she can pass on it if she doesn't want to come close. I have her for 5.5 years already BTW. Some horses are just like that. They also have different personalities (like people).
    smrobs likes this.
         
        01-27-2012, 11:27 PM
      #40
    Showing
    KV, I bet she and Pokey would get along like peas and carrots . They would probably be very happy to ignore humans together.
         

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