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going thru with threat

This is a discussion on going thru with threat within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        04-23-2013, 02:56 AM
      #31
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by clairegillies    
    tbforever, there is a lot of well meaning, good traditionl and respected advice in this post- however none of it has anything to do with natural horsemanship. Though this is posted in the NH section of the forum....
    If you want to learn that way of doing things its probably best to get an instructor out to see you , get some good groundwork skills . You could try joining Parelli connect, it is free for 30 days. See if you liked that way, or try Quantum Savvy, Cynthia Royal, Caroline Resnick.
    There are lots of natural horsemanship methods its a case of finding one that suits you.
    Sorry I am unable to post any links to any further information as links always get removed.

    Claire
    I have to strongly disagree with this. My advice, and that of many others, has everything to do with Natural Horsemanhip. NH should have plenty to do with making sure a hrose is very clear about where he can stand, how close he can come to the human, how promptly he must move off, and in what direction, and how he must not charge a human. There is not one thing I suggested that a decent NH trainer would not implement in that situation. Even clocking the hrose in the face, if it charged them.

    However, I will agree that the best scenario would be to use the slower, more careful and gentler techniques to fill in the gaps in the horse's training. That, however, requires that the handler be able to first get the horse to let go of ANY aggressive thinking. And that might look a bit rough for just a few minutes before it gets nicer, but it's still "natural horsemanship".
         
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        04-23-2013, 03:06 AM
      #32
    Foal
    @ tiny liny. Well I ought to have known better than to try to post anything about nh in the nh section... really.
    I'm so disappointed.
         
        04-23-2013, 04:02 AM
      #33
    Weanling
    I brought a shorter longe rope today
         
        04-23-2013, 07:37 AM
      #34
    Yearling
    You are just like I was. I was confused about how to actually lunge and it got to the point where my well broke mare would kick out and act up because she knew she had it over me. I got a riding instructor and now 2 months later I can confidently go and lunge her without anyone around.
    Your biggest thing is you need to get it in their mind that you are the herd master, your bigger then them, you call the shots. Get a round yard to help get more control otherwise keep head towards you and if he changes it kinda wiggle his head and if he doesnt turn his focus back to you then give a pull (if that makes sense that's what we do)
    The biggest thing your really going to have to be tough when he runs at you. I know how it feels to not want to hit the horse with a whip, believe me but my instructor insisted that if the horse kicked out at me to give a flick on the ass with the whip. She is now back to her former respectful self and I can lunge her perfectly. My opinion. Stop lunging, get a instructor to help you asap! It'll help you so much in the long run. The best thing I ever did was get an instructor to help me, I'm pretty sure you could benefit alot from one!

    I hope this helps! I can't really say anything cause i'm still learning myself
         
        04-23-2013, 11:55 AM
      #35
    Trained
    You are NOT his authority. I like what Julie Goodnight said on a recent program.
    "You are the captain, and your horse is your 1st mate, who must obey orders."
    I'm going to be kind. You don't know how to lunge and your horse is slow to respond. He keeps dissing you, first by not moving quickly away from the whip and then closing the circle on you. You added fuel to the fire by annoying him with the whip by not following through.
    First, watch Clinton Anderson. THIS is the end result of correct respectful lunging. (You have to pay to watch HIM do this.)
    See how these horses are both calm and obedient. Yank on that halter when he doesn't yield. He is 10x your size and it won't hurt him, just establishes WHO is in charge.
    Second, store your lungeline, for now. It's asking to tangle and you will be hurt, NOT your horse.
    Third, teach him to lead correctly, halt when you ask, back when you ask.
    Fourth, use a lead rope, a dressage whip and teach him to move his feet and yield. Go right, go left, go right, go left. I suggest 20 times for the first session. Then back him up about 20 steps. Use the whip on his chest IF he doesn't back using it on the lead in front of him, and MEAN IT!!! THEN, tie him up and let him think about this for an hour. Next session, same as the first.
    I sympathize bc I couldn't get my original herd of horses to lunge. BUT, they were broken and constantly used for lessons. Any idiot could handle/ride them, so I didn't pursue it.
    YOURS will hurt you, and YES, he will get more disrespectful as you tap at him like a girl fights, then let him win. Eventually he will just run you over.
    You might want to get some help.
    I am the kindest human and my horse's worst nightmare, depending upon their behavior. I pull out the monster whenEVER they willfully misbehave. It's worked for me for 27 years.
    SoldOnGaited likes this.
         
        04-23-2013, 12:12 PM
      #36
    Super Moderator
    I agree with Tinyliny NH should be about using good traditional common sense, methods, its so diversified that as long as you aren't flogging the hide of the horse and wrapping barbed wire around its bit then its likely to come under the NH umbrella these days
    I'm not sure if the OP's horse is an OTTB (ex racehorse) or maybe came off a big yard/barn but if he did then he would have been treated in a no nonsense fashion because they don't have the time for Drama Queens. He's suddenly feeling his feet and testing the water to see how far he can push things and trying where he can to call the shots. I actually like a horse with this sort of character because it means he's smart and when you use that on your terms you end up with a really interesting horse that is capable of learning a lot more than a robot type
    I like Carolyn Resnick but I think the Parelli approach would just irritate him - he needs really structured work not a lot of games - he knows exactly what to do - he just doesn't see why he should be doing it right now.
    If he's been bullied in the past into work rather than encouraged to work willingly then like most horses that have been trained that way the moment they realize they have an owner who is less confident they become the bully - a bit like children of abusive parents often become abusers themselves
    I'm not an aggressive person but if a horse tries to pull a dangerous stunt on me then its going to get one heck of a whack that it wont forget in a hurry - and then we can move on.
         
        04-23-2013, 12:29 PM
      #37
    Weanling
    You have no leadership. The lunging was really almost a joke, clumsey and awkward. He treats it as such because that what you are portraying. I wouldn't listen to you either. I almost felt sorry for your horse.
    Corporal likes this.
         
        04-23-2013, 01:28 PM
      #38
    Super Moderator
    @Clairgillies. I am sorry you feel I was out of line, but I think you are perhaps thinking that because this is a NH forum, that no dissenting opinion is allowed? Sorry, but the main purpose for creating a seperate forum for Nat. Horsemanship followers/practitioners was to keep the personal bashing of NH trainers at bay. I have not said one word about a trainer, nor about you and your training.

    I only want to express that I do not think firmly dealing with a horse that makes aggresive displays is outside of Natural Horsemanship. If NH is using the language that a horse uses within its' herd, then by all interpretations of that logic, you, as the leader of that herd of two , will firmly and instantly rebuke any subordinate horse that threatens you, as that horse did the handler.
    ONCE is all it takes, then the horse knows where he stands in the herd, and REAL violence is averted. That is the way a herd keeps it's balance and its' peace, and we can emulate that.

    If I offended you, I do apologize. I just disagree with some folks thinking that any use of negative force is unnatural and not part of NH, because I do not see it as outside of that realm. When needed, it is the quickest and ultimately most effective and permanent solution. IN a case like this, one good hard smack is much more merciful to the horse then a long series of taps or swinging of sticks/strings and such.
         
        04-23-2013, 01:39 PM
      #39
    Super Moderator
    Interesting videos. It might be better for a seperate thread, but when I watch that second video I see a horse that is moving in a very "rote" manner, is counter bent much of the time, very stiff in his body, mentally outside of the pen and resentful of the way the handler asks for sudden turns without any kind of preperation at all. And, the horse is very far from having a soft feel to that line. It knows the drill and it jumps to it, for sure, and maybe that might help the OP, but it's not an example of really good lunging, IMO.
    jaydee likes this.
         
        04-23-2013, 01:40 PM
      #40
    Trained
    It's a start and better than the OP's horses behavior. Found them fast, excuse any descrepencies.
         

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