Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone?
 
 

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Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone?

This is a discussion on Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Carrot stick for horse training
  • Carrot stick horse training

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    07-12-2011, 12:20 AM
  #1
Yearling
Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone?

I have a problem with Natural Horsemanship. Every time I click on a youtube video that looks cool, but turns out to be a NH follower, I want to vomit. Somebody's crouched down with their "ears laid back" trying to imitate Pat Parelli or trying to join up like Monte Roberts. Looks so silly.
The first time I saw a video of NH I was impressed. These guys were revolutionizing horsemanship! Then came the politically correct terms....A clinitian says he doesn't "cowboy" a horse, he gentles or starts them. OK, these guys were starting to get annoying since the horsemen I respected most were cowboys that could do anything they needed to do with a horse and a cow. These clinitians are dragging the word through the dirt. As if the word hasn't already been *******ized enough.
Then came the gimmicks. Trick horses(John Lyon's Zip), tools, etc. I couldn't understand why we have to tap a horse with a carrot stick for 90 minutes to get his ass over. Just ask once and spank him over! Then I realized oooooooh..........we're selling carrot sticks.
NH has become so commercialized it's sickening. Buy a halter, buy a dvd, buy a certification. And it's just become a contest of who can train the gentlest. I don't care who's gentler, let's see results!
People, we need to realize these clinitians are competing for YOUR money. And they're like politicians, they'll do or say whatever is popular with public opinion. If they screw up they make a public apology(search:Pat Parelli Catwalk) just like a politician
Wallaby, SorrelHorse, Deej and 7 others like this.
     
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    07-12-2011, 12:35 AM
  #2
Weanling
I agree totally. Some of these guys have valid ideas and methods that actually work but you have to dig through a lot of nonsense to find them! I don't disagree with natural horsemanship, I just disagree with how commercialized and full of gimmicks it has become.
     
    07-12-2011, 12:40 AM
  #3
Showing
Well said, both of you.
     
    07-12-2011, 12:55 AM
  #4
Trained
1 - In the past, almost everyone had grown up around horses and knew how to read their body language. When you lived daily with streets full of horses, their behavior was just part of your world.

For many of us, horses are foreign. I didn't grow up on a ranch surrounded by horses, so I appreciate trainers who help me understand how horses think and react.

After 3 years of living with horses, I'm getting a lot better - but when I started, the videos then on StateLineTack were invaluable to me. And the one set of DVDs from John Lyon helped me too.

2 - Carrot sticks & cowboys. I don't care if folks sell stuff, but I've never bought anything but a DVD from any NH trainer. I have hired a woman trained in the John Lyons system, and she got excellent results with our small Arabian mare (never ridden before) and our gelding (fearful after some idiot COWBOY spurred the hell out of him, leaving 2-3 inch holes in his flesh on each side). Same cowboy used an ill fitting saddle and wore a hole in his flesh on his withers, too!

In fact, our farrier - who regularly works with ranch horses - is certain they roped and threw our gelding to do his feet. With time and training, he now holds his feet in sequence for the farrier.

It has taken a lot of time to get his trust in humans back. When we first got him, when he saw a person with a cowboy hat & lariat, he blew thru the metal panels of a round pen in panic. Sorry, but there are plenty of cowboys who RUIN horses - just as there are others who are outstanding with them.

Teddy Roosevelt wrote about training horses, either quick or good. I prefer good. And training a horse to accept walking into a trailer beats the snot out of using a come-along every time.
     
    07-12-2011, 01:06 AM
  #5
Yearling
Thanks ladies! I'm really surprised nobody has jumped on me with both feet over this subject yet
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    07-12-2011, 01:18 AM
  #6
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazinCaucasian    
Thanks ladies! I'm really surprised nobody has jumped on me with both feet over this subject yet

You no doubt speak too soon. Did you make this post with that in mind? For late night entertainment? There will be others who will rise to the occasion.

As for me, I agree with bsm that there has been some great benefit gained overall with the blossoming of this philosophy. It isn't a new concept, but those NH practicioners who made it available to the average person have made a contribution to improving horse/human relations overall. Yes, there are some pretty ridiculous commercial aspects and the special wording and such is fodder for ridicule. I think that it's a developing trend, and it hasnt' reached it's natural apex, wherein it comes back to commonsense horsemanship with a basis in empathy for the other living creature we call a horse.
     
    07-12-2011, 01:27 AM
  #7
Weanling
I agree with all but

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazinCaucasian    
I don't care who's gentler, let's see results!
     
    07-12-2011, 01:29 AM
  #8
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms    
1 - In the past, almost everyone had grown up around horses and knew how to read their body language. When you lived daily with streets full of horses, their behavior was just part of your world.

For many of us, horses are foreign. I didn't grow up on a ranch surrounded by horses, so I appreciate trainers who help me understand how horses think and react.

After 3 years of living with horses, I'm getting a lot better - but when I started, the videos then on StateLineTack were invaluable to me. And the one set of DVDs from John Lyon helped me too.

2 - Carrot sticks & cowboys. I don't care if folks sell stuff, but I've never bought anything but a DVD from any NH trainer. I have hired a woman trained in the John Lyons system, and she got excellent results with our small Arabian mare (never ridden before) and our gelding (fearful after some idiot COWBOY spurred the hell out of him, leaving 2-3 inch holes in his flesh on each side). Same cowboy used an ill fitting saddle and wore a hole in his flesh on his withers, too!

In fact, our farrier - who regularly works with ranch horses - is certain they roped and threw our gelding to do his feet. With time and training, he now holds his feet in sequence for the farrier.

It has taken a lot of time to get his trust in humans back. When we first got him, when he saw a person with a cowboy hat & lariat, he blew thru the metal panels of a round pen in panic. Sorry, but there are plenty of cowboys who RUIN horses - just as there are others who are outstanding with them.

Teddy Roosevelt wrote about training horses, either quick or good. I prefer good. And training a horse to accept walking into a trailer beats the snot out of using a come-along every time.
Oh boy I think our definitions of cowboys are different. See, when I say cowboy I'm not talking about a coca cola cowboy, coffee shop cowboy, urban cowboy, or even a rodeo cowboy. I'm referring to a man who gets up in the morning and throws a leg over a good horse,(not one he's riding for the neighbors) and makes his living horseback tending to cows. On a ranch or in a feedlot. Just because this guy had a hat on and carried a rope doesn't mean he's a cowboy. But thanks for dragging the word a little further in the dirt
     
    07-12-2011, 01:32 AM
  #9
Banned
Both feet will jump in soon.

Shocking news, I work my horse in the round pen purely to work him, this in itself gains his trust. I don't need him to lick or chew to do this. He trusts me on his own, without that.

Cowboys, I doubt there are very many who follow NH, and I am sure many do well without it.
SorrelHorse and Ray MacDonald like this.
     
    07-12-2011, 01:34 AM
  #10
Yearling
I'm subscribing here.
     

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