Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone? - Page 18 - The Horse Forum

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post #171 of 297 Old 08-08-2011, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by kiwigirl View Post
Here is a simple one. How do you teach a horse to load on a float. Step by step, please instruct me. I want to know if there is a better way.
floats are too cave-like. You're a bully if you put your horse on a float.
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post #172 of 297 Old 08-08-2011, 01:16 PM
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floats are too cave-like. You're a bully if you put your horse on a float.
Are you referring to a horse trailer.

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post #173 of 297 Old 08-08-2011, 01:27 PM
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Goodhrs, yes he was talking about trailers but I believe christopher's comment was more of a tongue-in-cheek response to some of the things that were said earlier in the thread.

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
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post #174 of 297 Old 08-08-2011, 01:51 PM
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I'm still working my way through all the replies, and though it's not really on track with the original post, all of these types of threads have me wondering:

WHAT exactly IS natural horsemanship? I was under the impression that "NH" means you're working to communicate with the horse in a way it understands instead of just jumping on its back and riding the buck out of it. If that's the case, then I would think we ALL practice natural horsemanship, at least to some extent.

But there seems to be such a firm line between NH and non-NH, as you can see even with the creation of this sub-forum in Training. Clearly, my impression of what natural horsemanship is is not the way everyone else sees it.

Basically, what I'm getting here is: Natural Horsemanship is the term afforded to those who follow a special, commercialized "NH" clinician or trainer, or otherwise you're not a "natural horseman". Is this about it?

I'm really not clear on what exactly natural horsemanship is supposed to be.
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post #175 of 297 Old 08-08-2011, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by pintophile View Post
I'm still working my way through all the replies, and though it's not really on track with the original post, all of these types of threads have me wondering:

WHAT exactly IS natural horsemanship? I was under the impression that "NH" means you're working to communicate with the horse in a way it understands instead of just jumping on its back and riding the buck out of it. If that's the case, then I would think we ALL practice natural horsemanship, at least to some extent.

But there seems to be such a firm line between NH and non-NH, as you can see even with the creation of this sub-forum in Training. Clearly, my impression of what natural horsemanship is is not the way everyone else sees it.

Basically, what I'm getting here is: Natural Horsemanship is the term afforded to those who follow a special, commercialized "NH" clinician or trainer, or otherwise you're not a "natural horseman". Is this about it?

I'm really not clear on what exactly natural horsemanship is supposed to be.
That is exactly the point I keep trying to make. People get so hung up on NH or Non NH and wanting to be associated or not associated with it as the case may be that advancement and discussion of true horsemanship gets lost.

In this context I would say NH is simply any form of negative reinforcement training that is marketed as a system, and which usually justifies itself with 'this is what horses understand'.

So that includes all the Parrelli and ex-Parelli trainers, Anderson, Westfall, Monty Roberts, Cox, Lyons, Cameron etc etc etc whether they appear to be a new stick twirling type or a cowboy type makes no difference. The sooner people worked that out the better we'd all be and the more we'd accomplish.
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post #176 of 297 Old 08-08-2011, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by spirithorse8 View Post
................

, I do so with the foundation of the schooling arising from the requirements of the horse and the benefits to the horse. Doing such allows the client to hear the horse. It is not about stroking my ego, it is about allowing the horse to be your equal. "Supreme Performance Through Supreme Freedom" and that means both the physical and psychological interactions of horse and rider.
Your horse is your equal huh? So it pays taxes & helps around the shack? Phoney baloney on that pony. I go to work & bust my butt to feed the nag and pays it's vet bills and stick my hands in it's watertank at -40F to scoop out poop he left in there for me, and you're telling me he's my equal???? I think not, I am his slave. But the least he can do for me is pack me around the showpen on his back & not embarrass me!
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post #177 of 297 Old 08-08-2011, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by spirithorse8 View Post
it is about allowing the horse to be your equal. "Supreme Performance Through Supreme Freedom"
Just WTHeck does this mean, Equal, that doesnt even make good sense:roll:. There is no way horse & human are equal. Good lord man, just physical strength if nothing else, well nothing else for that matter.

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post #178 of 297 Old 08-08-2011, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Doe View Post
In this context I would say NH is simply any form of negative reinforcement training that is marketed as a system, and which usually justifies itself with 'this is what horses understand'.

So that includes all the Parrelli and ex-Parelli trainers, Anderson, Westfall, Monty Roberts, Cox, Lyons, Cameron etc etc etc whether they appear to be a new stick twirling type or a cowboy type makes no difference. The sooner people worked that out the better we'd all be and the more we'd accomplish.
Doe, I actually agree with a lot of what you say but you seem to have the habit of calling well known horsemen incompetent and wrong while not offering much about how you would do it better.
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post #179 of 297 Old 08-09-2011, 12:33 AM
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The thing about NH is the training is only as good as the person doing the training. The NH people turn out "trainers" who are people who have paid a crazy amount of money to go take a class or two. As a general rule most of the NH trainers can't teach a horse to round and be collected. Their horses lope around with their backs hollow and strung out. The horse won't stay sound if they are ridden much distance in that frame (or lack of). Also I agree with the person who said many of the NH trainers never get on the horses back. Lots of ground work is wonderful because the horse learns to trust but the horse needs to be ridden to transfer the trust to the rider from the ground. Another point is all the "stuff" they are selling. A true horseman frankly doesn't need any of that to get a horse to understand him. They use body language and presence. This is something that can be learned but also has to be inside a person.
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post #180 of 297 Old 08-09-2011, 12:46 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BoxT View Post
The thing about NH is the training is only as good as the person doing the training. The NH people turn out "trainers" who are people who have paid a crazy amount of money to go take a class or two. As a general rule most of the NH trainers can't teach a horse to round and be collected. Their horses lope around with their backs hollow and strung out. The horse won't stay sound if they are ridden much distance in that frame (or lack of). Also I agree with the person who said many of the NH trainers never get on the horses back. Lots of ground work is wonderful because the horse learns to trust but the horse needs to be ridden to transfer the trust to the rider from the ground. Another point is all the "stuff" they are selling. A true horseman frankly doesn't need any of that to get a horse to understand him. They use body language and presence. This is something that can be learned but also has to be inside a person.
Very well put!!
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