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Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone?

This is a discussion on Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        07-12-2011, 01:35 AM
      #11
    Yearling
    [QUOTE=tinyliny;1093747]You no doubt speak too soon. Did you make this post with that in mind? For late night entertainment? There will be others who will rise to the occasion.

    Yes I wanted to get people talking about this and see if even some of the NH people felt the same. Plus I'm bored and trying to get enough posts to get in the mysterious "chat room" they won't let me in yet
         
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        07-12-2011, 01:35 AM
      #12
    Trained
    I never really paid much attention to the NH bandwagon, until I started reading threads on here. So I read everything I could find, very controversial. Seems to me, these methods are helping more people than they are harming, most of it is commonsense horse handling with their personal spins on it. They are not scammers, there is no scam, but there is some slicky dicky marketing. Hey, we live in a capitalist nation, it's allowed, totally up to the consumer what they choose to spend their money on. Pat Parelli is an excellent horseman from what I gathered, and he capitalized on it, good on him.
    Ray MacDonald and Val1991 like this.
         
        07-12-2011, 01:53 AM
      #13
    Banned
    I believe it does or can harm. You desensitize a horse too much, and they will not lunge, will not move forward. To each their own, but I would not buy an NH horse.
         
        07-12-2011, 06:33 AM
      #14
    Weanling
    Without writing a novel, I would have to disagree with those who think NH is harmful to people and horses.

    My basic idea is that it is the "concept" that we should train using methods that are kind, fair, and make sense that is important. I think that there is much too much of the "old school" type trainers telling clients to do something just because it has always been done that way. Expecting people to blindly follow techniques that have no common sense is a lot worse, and certainly more detrimental to the horse, than most natural horsemanship out there. From this you get people who have been in the horse world for 20 years and still don't know how to do anything without their "trainer" at their side. Yes, there are marketing scams in the NH world, but I think that they are far more prevalent in the actual world of horse "training" barns.

    I do not agree with every NH trainer out there, but overall I find the concept to be much less offensive than much of what I see every day.
         
        07-12-2011, 07:22 AM
      #15
    Yearling
    I agree that the ideas are good, it is good that there is knowledge available for people who otherwise may not seek help with their horse.
    I see where there is a fortune being made, and I am sure most people realize you don't need "specific tools" to use the methods. (At least I hope).
    I still say you learn by doing, the more horses you work with, the better you become. Nothing can replace time spent with the horses themselves. Susan
         
        07-12-2011, 07:44 AM
      #16
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AmazinCaucasian    
    Oh boy I think our definitions of cowboys are different. See, when I say cowboy I'm not talking about a coca cola cowboy, coffee shop cowboy, urban cowboy, or even a rodeo cowboy...But thanks for dragging the word a little further in the dirt
    It was a working ranch in Colorado. They borrowed him for 4 months from my friend's ranch in Utah, and used him for cutting cattle. It was NOT a coffee shop, Coca-cola stand, city nor rodeo. It was a working ranch, with working cowboys - some of whom shouldn't be allowed near a horse, let alone on one. As I said in my previous post: "Sorry, but there are plenty of cowboys who RUIN horses - just as there are others who are outstanding with them." I grew up in Arizona and Utah, and have known too many real cowboys to unthinkingly admire their horsemanship skills. Some are great - my first rides were visiting ranches - but some stink. If I thought all were bad, I wouldn't have agreed to buy the gelding in the first place.

    You might try asking for more information before you attack another post. At my friend's ranch, the gelding was known for trying hard to do whatever you wanted him to do. When he arrived back from Colorado, my friend offered to cancel the deal - but we took him. With time, he has become a fine horse again. Time, and training from a NH trainer trained by Lyons.

    Not all cowboys are idiots, and not all NH trainers are. But you can find idiots and jerks among both...
         
        07-12-2011, 08:49 AM
      #17
    Foal
    The gimmick-y NH of trainers like Parelli and Clinton Anderson, ect, I think, is just a way to dumbie proof things for people. And you can't really argue with that.

    Before the recession, the number of equine households was on the rise. I remember many years ago reading an article that there was actually a push to raise interest in Equine activities in American homes. Don't know about other areas of the world, but the intent was to raise it by 2%. I am sure that has been reached, if not by more. Granted, now-a-days, you might go on vacation and come home to a new horse on your pasture. Its a sad reality, but I digress....

    These little gimmicks (DVDs, Carrot sticks, Handy sticks, giant red Parreli balls, ect) just give the newbies out there a path to follow, because lets face it, everyone wants to be a trainer. I had to chuckle a little bit when I really thought about it, NH gimmicks kind of remind me of Weight Watchers. Weight Watchers was designed for people who can't (or wont) count calories or watch their portion sizes. Its a dumbie proof calorie counting systems with little books and calculators and point systems. Instead of saying you can eat 1500 calories a day, you get 25 points. And people LOVE this stuff! People buy the books and calculators and brand named foods with the points already tallied for them. Its crazy!

    However, I lost 55lbs on weight watchers so I must say sometimes the gimmick works. I pretty much trained my horse myself and I don't own a "carrot stick" and I don't watch "Downunder Horsemanship" telecasts. I just use regular old common sense. But for some people, they like the contructed set up. Which is why people see results in things like weight watchers. There really isn't anything wrong with the system. I just comes down to if you want to do it your way, or theirs. They both can work if done correctly.

    I feel I got off topic there. But I find this thread intriguing. I think I will subscribe!!
    Tianimalz and Val1991 like this.
         
        07-12-2011, 09:23 AM
      #18
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ScharmLily    
    . Yes, there are marketing scams in the NH world, but I think that they are far more prevalent in the actual world of horse "training" barns.

    I do not agree with every NH trainer out there, but overall I find the concept to be much less offensive than much of what I see every day.
    These two sentences sum it up for me. I am most familiar with Saddlebred training barns where the horse owners are only allowed to ride during a lesson, where they are told what to do but not why. They show up, get on their already tacked up horse, ride then leave.
    They do this for years on end, always 'trading up horses' when the current one burns out, though they are told they have advanced past the horse's ability.
    I board a few ex-show horses & the owners had no idea how to do simple things on their own. Those that want to learn are greatly helped with some NH techniques, so are the horses. Really it's just common sense techniques but I'm OK with the NH label for discussion.
    Anything that gets a person working with their own horse is fine with me, no matter what it's called.
         
        07-12-2011, 09:33 AM
      #19
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smrobs    
    Well said, both of you.
    Yepper!


    There are bad sides to all aspects of the horse training world. For sure.

    The biggest problem with the whole NH movement is it is marketed at people who truly do not know any better.
    SarahAnn and savvygirl559 like this.
         
        07-12-2011, 09:44 AM
      #20
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alwaysbehind    
    The biggest problem with the whole NH movement is it is marketed at people who truly do not know any better.
    I agree with this. I do have to say though, for the amount of owners out there that say they can't afford a trainer right now, or don't have access to one for whatever reason and are still new to the horse world, I would feel safer sharing a ring with someone who was watching Paralli DVDs than not utilizing training at all.
         

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