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Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone?

This is a discussion on Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        08-11-2011, 02:51 PM
      #191
    Weanling
    Montessori meets Boot Camp at Oxford. . . Wish I could listen in.
         
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        08-11-2011, 03:22 PM
      #192
    Super Moderator
    Gee, I would love to join in the wine party. Ooops, the last time I mentioned alcohol I was scolded!!

    However....I prefer white!!
         
        08-11-2011, 04:05 PM
      #193
    Yearling
    Well, here is my two cents. I am new to horse ownership, having purchased my first horse at the end of February. Prior to that, I had worked in a barn for riding time throughout my high school years, and spent almost two years searching for a horse and saving money, reading, and learning all I could to be ready. I bought a CA and a PP book, and read them both. (You can skip to the next two paragraphs for the main point if you want).

    Fast forward to the first time I ride Gambit (my horse). He did not want to turn right, and when I asked him to, he threw up his head and backed up or stopped. I didn't want to be "mean" so I just turned him 270* left as opposed to 90* right, and continued with the ride.

    The next time I rode him he was (predictably) worse. I got sick of his attitude, grabbed his rein down by the bit, and forced him to turn right. He slowly stopped fighting me with this.

    What I am trying to say here is that the NH books I read both emphasized "being nice" over getting the job done. It suckered me in because I was new and I wanted to be nice. But at the end of the day, you need to be the boss, not the horse and you need to show that to your horse in whatever way is effective for him.

    Now, I am not saying that NH is bad, I recognize that it has helped some people and horses. What I disagree with is assuming it works for everyone and every horse, and saying that those who do not use it are poor horsemen.
    kevinshorses and jannette like this.
         
        08-11-2011, 04:55 PM
      #194
    Doe
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Beling    
    Montessori meets Boot Camp at Oxford. . . Wish I could listen in.
    Rofl wonderful!! That has genuinely made me laugh out loud.
    I'm just curious as to who is who.......?
         
        08-11-2011, 07:06 PM
      #195
    Foal
    Cool

    [QUOTE=gaelgirl;1133527]What I am trying to say here is that the NH books I read both emphasized "being nice" over getting the job done. /QUOTE] I don't know which books you were reading, but the NH training I have used never said that, it was be as firm as needed to get the job done. Right thing easy, wrg thing hard with lots of extra work. That's how I roll.
    anndankev likes this.
         
        08-29-2011, 12:12 PM
      #196
    Weanling
    The truth is, atleast were we live,it doesnt matter wether they say they are nh or a cowboy the two things that both have in common is that there are absolute morons who ruin the name of the "group" and others that are amazing...true "horse whisperers" .....i grew up around cowboys of all walks of life...and they all have diff. Ways they beleive is correct..now that I am getting back into riding full throttle I have been taking advice from all sources, including this sight :), and sorting through what makes sense to me...the old way and new way have their good points...its up to us to use our common sense.....if anyone nh or cowboy told me to inflict unnecesary pain (and I've seen both parties afflict it) I would simply not take THEIR advice...we need to teach our animals our children our husbands :)jk...no matter what training title you put on it I don't beleive beating the creature and making it fearfull will ever work for anyone...may get some imediate results with some but no trust will ever be there...that's when you get bit, kicked, killed in your sleep :)jk ya get the point
    Wheatermay likes this.
         
        08-29-2011, 02:21 PM
      #197
    Foal
    I have always thought of Natural horsemanship to be communicating with a horse in thier launguage, you need to be the herd leader, and in charge, or they will be. I do not follow PP, CA, or any other method. I have watched some of the videos, I am guilty of watching RDF-tv now and then. A lot of it I laugh at. I use bits and pieces of anything that works for me, and some I have made up myself. Horses can not be cookie cutter trained, each horse has different methods that will work for it.
    To start with I think many of todays problems stem from the fact that horses are now a luxury, and not a part of life like in the past.
    You did not see a farmer say Oh, fluffy does not want to pull the plow today, his right brain is exploding, and he is depressed (or whatever else you mave have seen or read as an excuse to not ride, or work your horse) People have lost site that horses are animals, and they are prey animals.

    I have spent more hours than I can count watching my herd interact. My lead mare, does not ask the other horses to do anything, and usually she does not have to tell them either. Herd members know thier place, they follow her without question. They know were to be, when to get out of the way. They respect her, and follow her leadership. She does not have to round them up to go to the water trough, or to the other end of the ranch.

    This is what I try to be to my horses, the lead mare. I am fair, I can be your friend (as my mare is with many of her herd mates), but I AM the boss, and the final word. My broke horses are broke. I can leave them sit in the field for weeks, months, pull out, and ride without lunging, and have a good ride.
    When I load them , they get in the trailer. My worst horse will get one foot in, take it out, then load all the way in. It never takes more than a min to load any of my horses. Most I throw the lead over thier back, and tell them to load, and they walk right in.

    I'm not just lucky and have good horses, many of my horses have come with issues, but with leadership, and training most issues can be gotten through very quickly.
         
        08-29-2011, 02:25 PM
      #198
    Foal
    Oh, I forgot the most important training tool! Common sense.
    jannette likes this.
         
        08-29-2011, 03:18 PM
      #199
    Trained
    WOW-I can't believe I read this WHOLE thread!!
    **excuse, burping now while digesting**
    I guess I've had my horses long enough,
    I've bought/digested enough books on horsemanship,
    I've tried enough different disciplines,
    I've owned enough different breeds.
    So...
    NOW I watch and analyze every bit of advice that I read,
    That I watch,
    That I observe,
    From EVERY trainer that wants to show me.
    The ONLY NH advice that I totally disagree with is, "Your horse shouldn't be bored."
    Perfect practice always makes perfect. I know. I play 2 instruments, and my horses are trained as well as I know how to. Practice is
    BORING!!!...but it's necessary.
    Ya' know, we've domesticated all of the animals who are good at following us, like horses and dogs.
    Go back to the OP. Let's just use our common sense more.
    ...hmmm... I wonder how long this thread will go...
         
        09-01-2011, 04:14 PM
      #200
    Weanling
    Practice is boring, sure, but a necessity to helping a horse learn the drill. When I'm working with my horse, I try to mix things up. I know he's got the attention span of a hummingbird, but I still have to teach him stuff. What I find works best to teach while beating boredom is to go through a quick refresher course and then throw in something completely strange. For example:

    Yesterday, I picked up his near front and off hind foot and held them for a few seconds and then asked him to back up a few steps. Then, I led him from the right side rather than the left. That confused the hell out of him, but after a bit of coaxing, he followed. I think it's important for a horse to lead from both sides, so that's what we worked on yesterday.
         

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