Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone? - Page 22
 
 

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Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone?

This is a discussion on Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Big sharp spurs
  • Do good horsemen use spurs

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    10-30-2011, 12:10 PM
  #211
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiviknon    
To bring this back to page one, I'm totally for slandering the cowboy name. I've seen a good number of horses ruined by cowboys. Oh sure you will say, "Not all cowboys are like that!" And I will argue, not all people that do meth try to sell their kids on craigslist. Just because there is an exception to the rule doesn't make it right. That is the reputation they have, they can either grow out of it or just accept it. Really this applies to the younger cowboys, I think its because of a lack of experience and being able to control their horse. So, it's you won't do what I say, you get spurred! It's ridiculous, I've ridden some horses people thought were bad, and I had the time of my life.
I think there's a real good chance you have never met a cowboy. If all cowboys were like that then how do you explain the popularity of "ranch broke" horses. Who do you think trains these horses? If a real cowboy told you a horse was bad you WOULD NOT have the time of your life riding it. Younger riders usually don't handle thier horses as well as riders with more experience regardless of the discipline. If you go to a rodeo and assume that everyone there is a cowboy you are fooling yourself. Just because they have a rope and a hat doesn't mean they are a cowboy. All it means is they know were the tack store is.
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    10-30-2011, 12:20 PM
  #212
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinshorses    
I think there's a real good chance you have never met a cowboy. If all cowboys were like that then how do you explain the popularity of "ranch broke" horses. Who do you think trains these horses? If a real cowboy told you a horse was bad you WOULD NOT have the time of your life riding it. Younger riders usually don't handle thier horses as well as riders with more experience regardless of the discipline. If you go to a rodeo and assume that everyone there is a cowboy you are fooling yourself. Just because they have a rope and a hat doesn't mean they are a cowboy. All it means is they know were the tack store is.
Wow, typical response that I think I already covered. I guess all those cowboys I met working at ranches were just fakes. I better go tell them. As for the popularity of ranch broke horses, first a Quarter Horse is the most popular registry in the world so it wins by sheer volume, second every QH I've been on has the roughest gaits in the world so why they're so popular is beyond me. I doubt a real cowboy has the knowledge and experience on how to ride Arabs or Thoroughbreds, because the ones I've seen their philosophy is, "If it aint doing right, spur it." I can't trust the word of some country, inbred hick who thinks the right thing to do is put an animal in pain. And I would never go to a rodeo, there is nothing there I want to see. Also the ranches I have experience with are Wells and Gutterson in Weld County Colorado.
     
    10-30-2011, 12:41 PM
  #213
Trained
Wow You have been to TWO whole ranches in ONE county of ONE state! That's a lot of experience! You're a fool if you think you know anything about ranching or cowboying. I've ridden arabs and TB's and drafts and gaited horses while actually DOING WORK and gotten along fine. I understand that you are a touchy feely "my horse is my baby" type and nothing I can say will change that but just because someone does things different than you do doesn't make them wrong.
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    10-30-2011, 12:53 PM
  #214
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinshorses    
Wow You have been to TWO whole ranches in ONE county of ONE state! That's a lot of experience! You're a fool if you think you know anything about ranching or cowboying. I've ridden arabs and TB's and drafts and gaited horses while actually DOING WORK and gotten along fine. I understand that you are a touchy feely "my horse is my baby" type and nothing I can say will change that but just because someone does things different than you do doesn't make them wrong.
The same could be said for yourself, you aren't listening to another opinion because you have your way of doing things. I've ridden horses into combat, and didn't need spurs. And neither did the rest of my six man team. I guess that's more of that touchy, feely horsemanship the Northern Alliance does.

If I started to stab my girlfriend in the ribs with a spur because she wasn't doing what I wanted that would be assault. What makes the difference when its a horse? Because it can't speak?
     
    10-30-2011, 01:19 PM
  #215
Trained
Just because a person rides with spurs doesn't mean that they are abusing thier horses and jsut because a horse packs you into combat doesn't mean you know how to ride. I thank you for your service and I would love to hear about any experiences you would like to share. What I'm trying to get through to you is that not everyone that says they are a cowboy deserves the title and not everyone that uses spurs is abusive. I know many fine horsemen that are about the handiest cowboys you will ever see. They ride with spurs every day all day long and the spurs have never lifted a hair on a horse. They are used for refinement and to communicate more clearly.

I would never make a statement that all soldiers are blood-thirsty idiots because I have know one or two that are. The fathers of the natural horsemanship movement were ALL cowboys and **** handy ones at that. Most of the current crop of clinicians have been cowboys to some degree. If you step away from your predjudices and take an objective look you may see your error. I've seen "cowboys" like the ones you are talking about and from my experience they are the exception. When you start to have to use horses every day to do your job and you have to keep the same horses healthy you learn how to make things easiest on them.
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    10-30-2011, 01:21 PM
  #216
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiviknon    
If I started to stab my girlfriend in the ribs with a spur because she wasn't doing what I wanted that would be assault. What makes the difference when its a horse? Because it can't speak?
Would it be abuse if you tapped her on the shoulder to get her attention? That is the proper use of spurs.
     
    10-30-2011, 01:44 PM
  #217
Foal
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiviknon    
If I started to stab my girlfriend in the ribs with a spur because she wasn't doing what I wanted that would be assault. What makes the difference when its a horse? Because it can't speak?
I'm not sure why people what to humanize their horses. Any tool is only as aggressive as the user. Spurs, loungeing whips, crops & etc are tools. Not designed for abuse, they are just aids. Extentions of our arms & legs. JMO
     
    10-30-2011, 01:52 PM
  #218
Showing
I have to agree with Kevin on this one. I'd say you've met "wanna be" cowboys. True cowboys can't afford to abuse their horses because they are absolutely important to their jobs and way of life. There are a handful of rough cowboys but there is also that handful of rough handlers/riders in every horse sport that exists.

I always have spurs on my boots and have NEVER hurt a single horse with them and I've ridden and trained hundreds. They are for refinement only. Rarely do I even use them unless working on advanced maneuvers such as spins.

As far as the comment on all qh's being rough, then I'm afraid you've been on poor stock. Mine all have a trot that sits like a rocking chair and smooth as glass true lopes. I've ridden Arabs, tbs, twh, morgans, haflingers, appys, belgians and in addition to owning qhs I also own a Hanoverian. My qhs are as smooth of a ride as my Hano who was trained up to 4th level in dressage.

It would serve you well not to make assumptions on things you aren't well versed in.
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    11-03-2011, 07:39 AM
  #219
Banned
I remember having a conversation on another forum on how you term the word 'cowboy'. Again, everyone has their own interpretations, but one thing is that you cannot and should not stereotype. While there may be tendancies and some truth in one interpretation and some in another, it doesn't mean you can stereotype the whole lot.
I do think there is this painted negative macho cowboy image out there right now who abuses his horse whilst wearing his big sharp pointy spurs, long shanked bit and forces the horse into submission. If this is the only interpretation someone has of a cowboy and they believe all are like this, then I think that's pretty narrowminded.
     
    11-03-2011, 11:08 AM
  #220
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr    
I remember having a conversation on another forum on how you term the word 'cowboy'. Again, everyone has their own interpretations, but one thing is that you cannot and should not stereotype. While there may be tendancies and some truth in one interpretation and some in another, it doesn't mean you can stereotype the whole lot.
I do think there is this painted negative macho cowboy image out there right now who abuses his horse whilst wearing his big sharp pointy spurs, long shanked bit and forces the horse into submission. If this is the only interpretation someone has of a cowboy and they believe all are like this, then I think that's pretty narrowminded.
Agreed.

I know the kind of "cowboy" that Kiviknon is talking about - those people (men and women) who may call themselves cowboys but they're a far cry from being good horsemen.

They're those people who are more interested in showing off to their buddies, and bragging about "breaking" a "dangerous" horse, than building a solid foundation with the horse they're working with.

It would be like saying anyone who rides an English discipline is stuck-up, prissy, and absolutely terrified to do anything with their horse that is outside the "safety" of a riding arena.
     

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