Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone? - Page 28
 
 

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Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone?

This is a discussion on Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        11-30-2011, 11:58 PM
      #271
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jannette    
    lol well I do think that yes the NH technique is being bashed, but not practical horsemanship...that is just being forced into being all hollywooded up to apeal to all, those who have common sense and those who need to feel warm and cozy (i don't have that need)...it hurts the good ones credability to "horsepeople" however in the process...that's just kinda what I've got out of this subject....im good with here is horse, do this this that and the other thing..simple...i don't need all the lights, music, storyline


    Not the technique, but the way it is presented. It is the sugar coating I have a problem with. (and the God status, but we already covered that)

    Did your dad say to you when your horse was being a prick "Drive him around with your lead rope, make him work!"
    Or was it a little more like-
    "Spank his f-ing ass!"
    (which doesn't equal abuse)

    My 'ol man said the latter...but if I ever got caught getting after one that didn't need it.. guess what, and you probably were the same, you got a set of reins over your butt.

    That is the difference, I was told how it was, not sugar coated, the punishment must fit the crime.

    It is knowing the difference between when a horse is honestly scared and needs guidance or being a prick and testing his boundaries.One of the things that makes a horseman is being able to know that difference and being able to get in his head. Any one can learn the mechanics of training- it's simply knowing when to use it.
    kevinshorses and jannette like this.
         
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        12-01-2011, 12:31 AM
      #272
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by amschrader87    
    I see what your saying about the going holllywood crap in it is a little ridiculous. And I've found that some people say that they follow those people but they don't actually practice their techniques. They just like them cause there famouss
    I have admitted to being a little biased. If I wanted to be "fair and balanced" like FOX News... not to just trash NH clinicians, it goes both ways after pondering this most of the day. ( Being on hold with the a government agency for the majority of the day gives you time to do so. Which may explain my shortness...go figure)

    With the futurity world as far as cutters and cowhorses (that I am most familiar with) have similar issues. I remember working for a trainer a few years ago and being at a show. Having a few minutes of not working I sat in the stands to watch. Listening to people behind me I realize this-

    It is not completely the talent of the trainer, it is rather the people he has backing him. If I have a guy that can afford to send 5-10 colts to futurity with one trainer, what are the odds that at least one of them will make it and score well? What if I was a talented trainer and had no one to send me multiple horses to take the futurity, what are my odds of scoring well?

    The next fall, who gets a bunch of colts sent to him for futurity prospects?
         
        12-01-2011, 12:59 AM
      #273
    Foal
    I think work is punishment for a horse and "beating" a horse because of a behavior doesn't teach anything except for your horse to be afraid of you.
    I don't want my horse to think if im bad ill get beat I want him to think if im bad ill have to work harder. I don't believe in beating a horse that is bad horsemanship. Sorry if you disagree
         
        12-01-2011, 01:04 AM
      #274
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by amschrader87    
    I think work is punishment for a horse and "beating" a horse because of a behavior doesn't teach anything except for your horse to be afraid of you.
    I don't want my horse to think if im bad ill get beat I want him to think if im bad ill have to work harder. I don't believe in beating a horse that is bad horsemanship. Sorry if you disagree
    Perhaps I am not understanding the concept... but do you not thwap him on the ass with the lead rope if he don't get his butt around when you "pin your ears at him" and ask to yield his hind end and face you, which is a sign of submission?
         
        12-01-2011, 01:09 AM
      #275
    Trained
    Haven't you read those threads that say "I can't get Fluffy to trot in the round pen and I've tried everything short of hitting him! Plez Help!!!". When the followers of the NH BS can't get thier horse to yield its hindquarters by waving a stick at them they quit or make an excuse about how the horse was previously abused or that it's a rescue.
         
        12-01-2011, 01:18 AM
      #276
    Foal
    Actually at this point in training I don't have to wack my horse. Because he reacts off of body language. And im not talking about one little wack/tap on the butt to get his attention im talking about people who beat the snot out of their horses because they don't listen.
    Yes I correct my horse. But there are people that don't know when to stop.
    Horses don't learn from beatings they learn from pressure and release.
    Yes CA method has worked for me but do I baby ny horses? Heck no
         
        12-01-2011, 01:32 AM
      #277
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by amschrader87    
    Actually at this point in training I don't have to wack my horse. Because he reacts off of body language. And im not talking about one little wack/tap on the butt to get his attention im talking about people who beat the snot out of their horses because they don't listen.
    Yes I correct my horse. But there are people that don't know when to stop.
    Horses don't learn from beatings they learn from pressure and release.
    Yes CA method has worked for me but do I baby ny horses? Heck no
    But in the beginning you had to thwap in the butt to teach him that is what you wanted when you used your body language right?

    Like I said above, spank his ass, but not abuse him....

    That is my point... I am not sugar coating, simply using training at the right time to reach a goal of respect between horse and rider.

    Is that not what you are doing?

    I am not saying your babying him....however the words are a lil' "fluffy" compared to the the words I am using...
         
        12-01-2011, 01:37 AM
      #278
    Trained
    It used to be called horsemanship (and still is in some places) but now more people call it Savvy or The Method. It's all the same stuff people were doing 100 years ago. You can read Will James books and the guy riding the broncs would take the edge off them and then hand the horses over to an older hand to finish and make into good using horses. How you get through the first 10 rides makes little difference in how the horse turns out two or three years down the line.
         
        12-01-2011, 01:44 AM
      #279
    Foal
    See below post :)
         
        12-01-2011, 01:47 AM
      #280
    Foal
    Ok I miss read your one post. Sorry
    I see what your saying that these techniques or horsemanship has been around forever but people like Ca and pp are making it seem as though they were the ones who came up with it by using different words and sugar coating it so that its more marketable.
    Got the point and I couldn't agree more.
         

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