Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone? - Page 29 - The Horse Forum
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post #281 of 297 Old 12-01-2011, 12:51 AM
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Sooo..... is this the part where we all hug now? tee he
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post #282 of 297 Old 12-01-2011, 12:52 AM
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Lol not the hugging type but we can shake hands. Haha
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post #283 of 297 Old 12-01-2011, 04:16 AM
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Just reading from you guys ;D

I won't 'beat the snot' out of my horse for no reason and there is a fine balance between respect and fear, and those who have been around horses for longer and are willing to learn will know this.

Duffy bit me the other day- what did I do? I untied her from the crossties, got a leadrope on her and gave her a couple of whacks, I then used ground work till she dropped her head and stopped using what I would describe as body language that was bolshy towards me. It took two minutes, and she stopped.

I lunge her. I use a lunge whip. I don't crack it, or whip her with it, I use it as motivation for her hind legs. If she were to come at me, attempt to change direction, reared or bucked that wasn't out off yeehaw, she would get a crack, I would send her forwards until she wanted to stop, I would then continue to send her forward.

They're big animals, even the little 13hh canbe devils if the mood strikes them, and when they know they can use their weight against you, you're in trouble,. There is no WAY you can fight a horse, you have to be clever, savvy and quick about it. Think one step ahead of the game.

If you watch a lead mare in a field, she doesn't think... actually, I'm not going to double barrel you in the face, I'll make you leg yield till you submit.... They don't think in terms of humans, you have to establish that role of head honcho.
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post #284 of 297 Old 12-01-2011, 12:16 PM
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[QUOTE=COWCHICK77;1250029]Not the technique, but the way it is presented. It is the sugar coating I have a problem with. (and the God status, but we already covered that)

Did your dad say to you when your horse was being a prick "Drive him around with your lead rope, make him work!"
or was it a little more like-
"Spank his f-ing ass!"
(which doesn't equal abuse)

My 'ol man said the latter...but if I ever got caught getting after one that didn't need it.. guess what, and you probably were the same, you got a set of reins over your butt.

yep!!! lmao i didnt see you at my house but that sounds like a day of training me at grandads....he said "whoop his a__ and get him around hear" alot, or my fav "get your a__ in the pen and work that out of em"
and yes if i ever was using my lead or whatever becuz i was being a bratt and impatient and took it out on my horse i would have it returned.....

and i do see some good in NH thinking however i think they miss the mark in alot of other things so ill leave that alone lol....

no time is wasted spent in the saddle
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post #285 of 297 Old 12-05-2011, 10:46 AM
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Aside from some of the bigger name NH trainers being put on pedestals, and all the marketing of overpriced gadgets, I'd have to say that the overall "fluff" is what bothers me.

That includes making up gentle-sounding names for those overpriced gadgets so that people will think that using THAT gadget will be less harmful to the horse than a "traditional" piece of horse training equipment.

For example, a lot of NH trainers turn up their noses at "lunging" a horse and convince their followers that it's nothing more than chasing the horse in a circle to wear it out. Yeah, there are people out there in the horse world who do that. . .but there are a whole lot more who include lunging as part of actual training - teaching forward movement as well as learning voice cues, balance, transitions. . .

The NH trainers promote their "method," claiming that it's much more than "lunging" (by their definition), and end up with throngs of followers who are convinced that they are so much more enlightened than people who "lunge" their horses. I guess it makes them feel better about how much money they've spent on a DVD.

Calling something a "game" doesn't mean the horse likes "playing" any more than it would enjoy doing ground-work with a more traditional, competent trainer.

Horses are not all about gentleness and warm fuzzies. They do require patience - but not coddling. Many (not all, but many) of the NH "methods" remind me of those people who want to be their child's "friend" instead of a parent. They confuse "discipline" with "abuse," and never punish the child (or horse) for misbehavior because it might damage their relationship.

And even those NH clinicians who do end up whopping a horse in the face, using gum-lines, or other "discipline" - try to cover for themselves and claim that what THEY did is so much better and nicer and gentler than what a "traditional" trainer would have done.
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"Parelli horsemanship is just like painting by the numbers. You need absolutely no skill. You just put this color here and this color there, and when you're done, you have ... a mess no one wants." mp
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post #286 of 297 Old 12-14-2011, 10:37 AM
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lI read alot of the previous posts (not all 29 pages, but most) so I hope I'm not repeating too much of previous posts.

IMO all these trainers bring something to the table, you gotta take a bit from each to use what works with the horse your training at the time - every horse is different and may require a different technique (or a mesh of a couple of different techniques) to achieve the results you want.

The only issue I have is when you go to one of the clinics and they say you HAVE to use their halter, or lead, or what have you and the technique their trying to show you won't work without their products. I had a friend go to a NH clinic and she came in with a rope halter - but that rope halter wasn't good enough, she had to buy his brand of rope halter or the methods shown won't work. So after spending a few hundred to attend the clinic she had to pay an additional amount on a brand name overpriced halter. You should be able to work with what you got.

I know all clinics aren't like, and not all 'NH' trainers are either - it's an example.
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post #287 of 297 Old 12-14-2011, 11:25 AM
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Bravado,posturing,and tough attitude is not the only approach to training a horse.

But it is for some.

"The greatest strength is gentleness."
- Iroquois Proverb
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post #288 of 297 Old 12-14-2011, 01:11 PM
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I can recall the exact moment when the idealized concept of working with 100% gentleness all the time died for me, and it was watching Tom Dorrance repeatedly popping a horse on the jaw with his cane for trying to bite while being cinched. It's in "A Day with Tom Dorrance" with Larry Mahan.

Of course, the way he did it was beautifully simple and effectively changed the horse's attitude with no sweat or dust involved and it happened in about 30 seconds. Still, every popping sound of cane hitting jaw was like popping the balloon filled with the hot air of the "everything is love all the time" fantasy :P
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post #289 of 297 Old 12-14-2011, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Marecare View Post
Bravado,posturing,and tough attitude is not the only approach to training a horse.

But it is for some.
True, but it is not all unicorn farts and sunshine either.
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post #290 of 297 Old 12-14-2011, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by COWCHICK77 View Post
True, but it is not all unicorn farts and sunshine either.
If unicorns existed it would put the question of whether or not to let them rub their heads on you in a whole new light.
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