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Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone?

This is a discussion on Horsemen: Where has our common sense gone? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        07-12-2011, 02:54 PM
      #81
    Foal
    But, they have to make a living and as many of you must agree, it's very hard to make a living in horses. It's not a crime to sell your skill, knowledge or talent. It's an open market and buyers can pass.

    It is good that there are multiple voices out there reminding those with open minds that it isn't the color of or the name of your stick, it's the way it is wielded. Thus, those that feel satisfaction out of being well equiped with every piece provided in the training catelogue can be happy , while those that don't need them can be happy.[/QUOTE]

    Well put no one is forcing anyone to buy anything and if people want to or not it is up to them!
         
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        07-12-2011, 02:55 PM
      #82
    Yearling
    That's exactly what I'm saying. It's not the methods, but how they are abused. But NH is a great method for those that have very little experience and even for those that have a lot of experience.
         
        07-12-2011, 02:59 PM
      #83
    Yearling
    I say good for them, if they can make a living out of it. You don't have to buy their products if you don't believe in them, but obviously someone does.
         
        07-12-2011, 03:03 PM
      #84
    Yearling
    The problem with these threads (and the reason I lose interest in them fairly quickly) is that they all seem to end up with these exchanges where people who can't resist the opportunity for a good rant (really, who can?) compare their anecdotes:

    Post 1: I worked with a horse who was trained with X and it was the most badly behaved horse I've ever had.
    Post 2: My trainer uses X and it's been fantastic. It's really helped me and my horse.
    Post 3: I've had horses for 30 years and think X is just pointless when you apply common sense to your horses.

    Problems are not inherent to X (unless X is in fact beating your horse senseless), but rather how people handle their horses and how well they understand them. That is more important than whether they use training system X or Y. Horses are very sensitive, as we all know, and owners A and B can both be using, or saying they are using, X, but A has very good timing, feel, and a good idea of what X is supposed to be accomplishing, while B has terrible timing, no feel, and is just following the instructions but actually hasn't a clue.
    Fancy14 likes this.
         
        07-12-2011, 03:45 PM
      #85
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sarahver    
    I also wonder where the common sense has gone but am hesitant to point the finger at any one person or group.

    I think that it is in human nature to want to include, and to want to exclude. One is necessary by virtue of the other. We include those that have similar beliefs to us and exclude those that don't, thereby reaffirming our own beliefs by associating with other people who share those beliefs.

    It isn't just in the NH world. Look at religion, look at politics. It's basic human nature. 'We' are right and 'They' are wrong. As if right and wrong are so easily definable.
    Yes, sarahver, my thoughts exactly. As newbie to riding (2 years) and ownership (6 months) you can imagine how confusing all of the different training techniques are to someone like me. My barn manager, excellent trainer, judging by the behavior of his horses, introduced himself to me as someone who "uses NH training before anybody ever called it that." When he first mentioned NH I immediately thought, uh oh... beware, but I do appreciate the way he works. Of course, I myself am not training horses...

    An analogy: as a teacher we have the same situation in learning theories and teaching techniques. I've been around for a while and know that there are certain basic principles that are present in all methods, no matter what you call it. Some methods go to an extreme in one way or another, these are the ones that in the long run don't work. For example, do you think I am going to spend my money on a workshop titled "Teach like a rock star!"? Heck no, I know how to work effectively with kids without being a rock star.

    I have transfered what I know from dog training, and what I have learned from working with my horse to the classroom, though. Random thought: do you think I could get rich marketing a program called "Teach like a natural horse trainer!"?
         
        07-12-2011, 04:02 PM
      #86
    Doe
    Weanling
    Quote:
    It is good that there are multiple voices out there reminding those with open minds that it isn't the color of or the name of your stick, it's the way it is wielded. Thus, those that feel satisfaction out of being well equiped with every piece provided in the training catelogue can be happy , while those that don't need them can be happy.
    Indeed, well said.
         
        07-12-2011, 04:07 PM
      #87
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by outnabout    
    I have transfered what I know from dog training, and what I have learned from working with my horse to the classroom, though. Random thought: do you think I could get rich marketing a program called "Teach like a natural horse trainer!"?

    Not a bad idea!
         
        07-12-2011, 04:09 PM
      #88
    Doe
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thesilverspear    
    The problem with these threads (and the reason I lose interest in them fairly quickly) is that they all seem to end up with these exchanges where people who can't resist the opportunity for a good rant (really, who can?) compare their anecdotes:

    Post 1: I worked with a horse who was trained with X and it was the most badly behaved horse I've ever had.
    Post 2: My trainer uses X and it's been fantastic. It's really helped me and my horse.
    Post 3: I've had horses for 30 years and think X is just pointless when you apply common sense to your horses.

    Problems are not inherent to X (unless X is in fact beating your horse senseless), but rather how people handle their horses and how well they understand them. That is more important than whether they use training system X or Y. Horses are very sensitive, as we all know, and owners A and B can both be using, or saying they are using, X, but A has very good timing, feel, and a good idea of what X is supposed to be accomplishing, while B has terrible timing, no feel, and is just following the instructions but actually hasn't a clue.
    Yes Sarah I agree, these threads are popular, not because of answering questions, or indeed raising them, but because of the chance to vent!
         
        07-12-2011, 04:18 PM
      #89
    Yearling
    I was once one of the darling fluffers "Do NOT ever hit your horse!! Never discipline your baby in a harsh manner!! If you stick that stick out for him to run into you are a cruel horse Mommy/Daddy!"
    Well, while I won't ever beat my darling Rascal, I can say he has "run into the lunge whips butt" while trying to mow me down spooking at a butterfly. My boy has "knocked over the bucket forcefully" when turned his butt in my direction in the stall. He has made loops around the pasture with me on the 4 wheeler because "he just didn't feel like being caught for over 5 hours." Oh and not to mention "I don't feel like picking my feet up so I just cost you a farriers visit for nothing ;) cause he left and said "when he knows how to pick his feet up call me, but I really don't mind watching you with him for 30 minutes, in the shade with a cool drink, doing nothing while you fight to get his feet up since I can't do it my way. Thanks for the 10$ tip btw:) "
    I have had horses all my life. I have been thrown, kicked, fallen upon, and bitten. I have to say each instance was my own fault! If I had learned long ago the body language, the clues to a pissy mood, and bottom line BETTER HORSE SENSE I would have saved tons of money in Dr visits and such.
    Is it natural horsemanship, probably not, but is it cruelty or a beating, Nope! To me it's good sense not to let my 900 pounder run all over me when a simple smack with the flat of my hand can save me thousands in Dr bills :)
    Edit:
    Thankfully we are passed the hoof problem. I owe it all to Rascal for forcing me to let my farrier do his job which turned out to be gently tapping his feet till it got annoying as hell and he lifted it. DUHHHHHHH Here's my sign for not asking HOW he wanted to go about teaching him before I spouted off my mouth LMAO. It only cost me a couple hundred in farrier visits.
         
        07-12-2011, 04:45 PM
      #90
    Weanling
    I am a new horse owner, but have been involved in horses for 25 yrs. I appreaciate NH methods to an extent but I do what works with my gurls including hard tying my 3yr old greenbean to a post for 8 1/2 hrs yesterday so she would finalky allow me to put meds on her back legs. It was HOT 108 actual temp.... I offered her cool fresh water every hour but refused to release her till she did what I needed from her. Was it " mean" someone Im sure will think so, but it worked with my stubborn, fearful filly. And she still followed me around the yard last night & this morning.
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