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Join Up

This is a discussion on Join Up within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        07-05-2012, 09:24 PM
      #31
    Weanling
    I used Monty Robert's join up with my mustang. We've been doing liberty work ever since.
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        07-06-2012, 12:11 AM
      #32
    Started
    I used these techniques on my OTTB who was extremely dominant. In the herd he was always top dog and he would definitely test people playing all of the games. He was very playful. Mind needed to be constantly stimulated. It had to be his way (or make him think it was). There was very little he was scared of.....very confident horse. Training took psychology, patience, persistence, consistency, stimulating and respectful. I did a lot of 'join up' type stuff with him as a foundation with building respect without being threatening. I think it is the attitude you portray when you are chasing away. To me, I wasn't being a preditor, just making him move, but calmly and fairly....not to be mean....if that makes sense. It didn't take long, he caught on to things very quickly and seemed to enjoy the having a leader instead of being the leader. It worked for us. I can't say it is wrong if I had a well-mannered and wonderful riding horse.
         
        07-06-2012, 12:14 PM
      #33
    Weanling
    Ok so I am just goiong to post this on this thread cause nobody will look at mine so I have been wantin ti try join up for about 6 years....but I only got my horse this year. He will come to me in the field....but on;ly if i'm within 6 or 7 feet and hide my halter...he will rest his head on my shoulder and sleep but will stop if I start to stroke. After I ride, I usually take off his saddle and take it to the rail, and he will follow and even follow me over some ground poles, but if there are other people in the arena he wont. I was planning on trying join up soon just to seal the bond a little more but this thread is making me doubt a little....i just want to know if join up is the right ting to do. I have seen a couple people at my barn do it not to mention 7 years worth of videos. Basically, I am prepared and informed, but should I do it?
         
        07-06-2012, 12:53 PM
      #34
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by skyhorse1999    
    ok so I am just goiong to post this on this thread cause nobody will look at mine so I have been wantin ti try join up for about 6 years....but I only got my horse this year. He will come to me in the field....but on;ly if i'm within 6 or 7 feet and hide my halter...he will rest his head on my shoulder and sleep but will stop if I start to stroke. After I ride, I usually take off his saddle and take it to the rail, and he will follow and even follow me over some ground poles, but if there are other people in the arena he wont. I was planning on trying join up soon just to seal the bond a little more but this thread is making me doubt a little....i just want to know if join up is the right ting to do. I have seen a couple people at my barn do it not to mention 7 years worth of videos. Basically, I am prepared and informed, but should I do it?
    I highly recommend it. Once we did it didn't matter if there were other horse's/people where we were, he knew who his leader was and where he was safe. I believe that's why we still, to this day, have a remarkable bond that I just can't pinpoint. There's just a connection.
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        07-06-2012, 01:39 PM
      #35
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TrojanCowgirl    
    I highly recommend it. Once we did it didn't matter if there were other horse's/people where we were, he knew who his leader was and where he was safe. I believe that's why we still, to this day, have a remarkable bond that I just can't pinpoint. There's just a connection.
    I TOTALLY agree....there are no words for the bond I have with my horses....who all were rejected by previous owners. My mare, who I just sadly had put down, was the extreme. She was my first horse. I had no clue what I was doing. She had no clue what she was doing at 16 and never broke. She was a train wreck and complete basket case. The trainer quit with her after the first day when she tried to lunge her and my mare lunged at her and hurt her to where the trainer ended up with stitches in her forehead. She was labeled dangerous, mean, impossible and crazy. Nobody would deal with her. I didn't want to give up on her. I somehow felt we could work together. I was just recovering from ankle surgery after breaking it on my first trail ride on a leased horse and was in no hurry to ride. That was when I opened my first book and started watching videos etc.

    Since then, all four of my horses were trained basically the same way....little bits of variation depending on their personality. However, all of them I did join up with. Whether you have a crazy hyperactive horse or a non-spooky confident horse, they all can hurt you with lack of respect for you.

    All my horses can be at liberty in a 200 foot arena and still listen to my cues and make them walk, trot or canter without me having to chase them. They will also stop and come into me when asked. They follow me like puppy dogs and even the ones that don't like eachother in the pasture will respect eachother and not try any funny business when I am present. On a trail ride it will save you because if your horse is scared or you end up on the ground, they will look to you for the next answer....not try and run home. I can say that from experience with my crazy mare who is the spookiest one in the group.....one other rider, who was a trainer, fell off after her horse reared and took off home.....other horses ran trying to follow. My horse was scared and nervous, but swung her head around (while dancing around and chomping the bit) to my leg as if questioning me what to do. I pet her and assured her it was ok......and it was.

    Can I say that there is some magic miracle for this? Not really. Only the experience that I have had. I believe that the relationship with you horse is the most valuable thing you have and can save your life. Many people just over look that step and maybe have never even experienced it, thinking that because their horses can do all kinds of fancy tricks that they are trained.



         
        07-06-2012, 07:26 PM
      #36
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by skyhorse1999    
    I was planning on trying join up soon just to seal the bond a little more but this thread is making me doubt a little....i just want to know if join up is the right ting to do. I have seen a couple people at my barn do it not to mention 7 years worth of videos. Basically, I am prepared and informed, but should I do it?
    If you're 'prepared & informed' I don't get why you're asking us? I would also make a point of understanding horse ethology(natural behaviour) & bodylanguage well before you try it, don't just be 'informed' about it from an 'NH' theory. I also recommend everyone learn the principles of basic behavioural training - not as heavy as it might sound - so they can know when to be, when not to be & why. Then you should be able to work out when & why to do something like roundpenning.

    Quote:
    Can I say that there is some magic miracle for this? Not really. Only the experience that I have had. I believe that the relationship with you horse is the most valuable thing you have and can save your life. Many people just over look that step and maybe have never even experienced it, thinking that because their horses can do all kinds of fancy tricks that they are trained.
    Yes! That is SO important IMO. I don't want 'submission' at all from my horses, I don't want to be seen as 'dominant'. I don't want just 'obedience' or just 'respect', I want my horses to LIKE being with me & playing my games, to trust me, not just not to hurt them, but to know what's best for them.
    Elizabeth Bowers likes this.
         
        07-06-2012, 07:43 PM
      #37
    Yearling
    I had a disrespectful gelding (not anymore). And one time in the field he almost kicked me because of another horse, so I acted as the dominant horse, and pushed him out of the herd, and around in a circle for about 10 min. He got the picture real fast that I don't tolerate being kicked at when in and around the group. Once he realized he was wrong in what he did, and that the "boss" was disciplining him. He locked his one ear one me, and lowered his head, and I turned my back and let him come back into the group. And since then when i'm out and about and he has a problem with anther horse, he waits until i'm out of the way or I just say HEY!!! And he straightens right back up. It worked very well, he comes to greet me everytime I go into the pasture. I.e. He's also the dominant gelding of the herd.
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        07-06-2012, 09:54 PM
      #38
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Elizabeth Bowers    
    I had a disrespectful gelding (not anymore). And one time in the field he almost kicked me because of another horse, so I acted as the dominant horse, and pushed him out of the herd, and around in a circle for about 10 min.
    IMO it's important to understand the difference between 'dominant' & respected leader. I don't see what you did as *necessarily* dominant, but it is what a lead mare might do. I've also enjoyed using 'join up' in this sort of situation. I also think this is the way to do it, if you're striving to use 'natural herd behaviour' & MR's theory - IMO 'join up' should be done in an open pasture, the horse not continually chased around, but just kept from returning to the group until you *allow* them back.
    Elizabeth Bowers likes this.
         
        07-07-2012, 01:14 AM
      #39
    Started
    My dominant OTTB would chase any herd member he wanted at full gallop what seemed like just to be an ass****. My mare was lead mare over everyone but him. She did not like any other mare....EVER.....it was always ears pinned, neck stretched, teeth showing, snorting and running them away....even up to her final days when she could no longer walk without being lame in both front legs. She had, in the past lunged at other people if she felt threatened.....like the trainer trying to lunger her the first day with a whip and when someone shouted at her and banged on her barnstall door to irritate her when eating. Both of these two horses got along very well, but with anyone else they were both very dominant. Took a lot to accept another horse. Like I said, the OTTB would definitely try to play every game imaginable to get his way. My mare was excellent with people if I was with her and she wasn't being threatened.

    The two horses I only have now are the exact opposites of my first two.....bottom of the totem pole, docile, love everyone and everything. Training is definitely different, but same foundation for me.
    Elizabeth Bowers likes this.
         
        07-07-2012, 03:11 PM
      #40
    Yearling
    My gelding was very aggressive at feeding time,and i've been knocked over, and bitten because of his antics. So I just got tired of him being a butthead to the other horses when I was around, and chasing them away when I was handing out a sweet treat or something. He uses the same behavior I did to him on his 1/2 brother all the time, and in my observing, I noticed that if I did that maybe he would respect my authority when in in and around the herd. I wasn't planning on doing anything more, just proving my stance in the group. I do the same with any member of the herd, and its usually at liberty in a pasture. I try not to push a horse any harder than necessary. Just want them to have manners and respect for the people who go in and around them. :) Thank you though.
         

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