Joining up/Hooking on
   

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Joining up/Hooking on

This is a discussion on Joining up/Hooking on within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category
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    12-29-2013, 07:35 PM
  #1
Foal
Joining up/Hooking on

I've heard of joining up or hooking on to get your horse to trust and respect you. I've tried this with two of my horses.The first is my made,Gracie. She has lumber before and has been worked in the roundpen so I'm pretty sure she understands my cues. When I point my finger left she goes right and when I point right she goes left. Even with me stepping towards her and swinging the rope in front of her, she owns right through it and keeps going. She slows and stops without me telling her, she cuts turns, and bucks and kicks at me. She turns her butt to me and doesn't pay much attention to me when she stops. She seems like she's disrespecting me in every way possible, but then when I stop driving her around the roundpen, she stops, looks at me, walks over and then she follows me everywhere I go and does exactly what she supposed to.Then as soon as I turn her loose, she runs away as soon as I open the gate. I'm very confused about what to do about her.

The second horse is a gelding named Cody. I just got him a couple months ago and I don't know if he has ever been lunged before. All he wants to do is be as close to me as possible. Does anyone have any tips about teaching him the cues, getting him moving, and getting him to give me space? Thanks a bunch!
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    12-29-2013, 08:47 PM
  #2
Showing
She's not running from you but the work in the round pen. Horses get bored with this very quickly. When you opened the gate, didn't you hear her tell you "I'm outta here"? Your finger may be pointing one way but your body may be telling her something else and she may be doing as she understands what you want. Pretend your belly button is an eye. When asking her to go forward, be sure it's pointing behind her drive line, about where the girth would sit. To stop her, point your bb well in front of her and be sure you whip or rope is in a neutral position pointing toward the ground. Step forward to block her. If you have to, go across the pen and block her when she gets there. When she stops, back up a few steps and turn your back. This releases the pressure. Give her half a minute. The ask her to go the other way. If you exert too much pressure she's turn with her head away from you. That's ok. This is something you will have to figure out. When working on direction changes keep your energy low and keep her to the walk, so she will think. Once you sort it out you will be able to turn her toward you and away from you. It just takes practice.
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    12-31-2013, 05:36 PM
  #3
Trained
Hi,

'Join up', IMO is effectively about running a horse around until it 'submits'. This may sometimes be beneficial, but I wouldn't advise doing it as a general rule, or if you don't absolutely know what(& why) you're doing. However, teaching a horse to yield to pressure & move on cue, including at a distance(lunging), and teaching a horse to come when signalled are of course valuable lessons for all.

It sounds like you aren't very experienced at lunging & training? I therefore suggest you find someone who is, to help you learn, as, as it seems you've found with Gracie, it's very easy to inadvertently teach 'bad manners' & dangerous behaviour if you don't know what you're doing.

I first start out on line & up close, to teach the horse how to yield(respond softly with understanding) to your pressure & signals. Once they reliably understand how to yield whatever part of their body I ask, then I start increasing the distance they are from me, to teach/reinforce at a distance.
     
    01-03-2014, 09:57 PM
  #4
Weanling
If the handler cuts the horse off they will turn into the fence, hence kicking. Back away, bring the horse too you, then change direction by the horse turning inward. You can do it through having a lunge line, and backing away and drawing them to you very easily as well.
     
    01-03-2014, 11:14 PM
  #5
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddieMarie    
I've heard of joining up or hooking on to get your horse to trust and respect you. I've tried this with two of my horses.The first is my made,Gracie. She has lumber before and has been worked in the roundpen so I'm pretty sure she understands my cues. When I point my finger left she goes right and when I point right she goes left. horses go off of body language, really, not pointed fingers. People who teach the horse to go off of pointed fingers are usually reinforcing that command with body language, either purposefully or in intentionally.Even with me stepping towards her and swinging the rope in front of her, she owns right through it and keeps going. you are trying to cut her off too close. If she blows right through it it is becuase she is feeling pinched between you and the fence and she speeds up out of panic. If you need to get in front of her to stop her, and then turn her, you must pepare for that by moving across the pen so that you are in place (in front of her) well before she reaches that point. You may have to actually cut so far across the arena , it might actually serve to draw her toward you, in which case she will face you and you can stop her, rather than trying to step in front of her and stop her.She slows and stops without me telling her, she stops either because you have done something , such as back away from her, that signals her to stop, OR, she wants to quit and since you are not longer telling her to go, she takes the opportunity to stop and "ask" , "may I stop now?"she cuts turns, and bucks and kicks at me. She turns her butt to me and doesn't pay much attention to me when she stops. She seems like she's disrespecting me in every way possible, but then when I stop driving her around the roundpen, she stops, looks at me, walks over and then she follows me everywhere I go and does exactly what she supposed to.Then as soon as I turn her loose, she runs away as soon as I open the gate. I'm very confused about what to do about her. your signals to her in the round pen are likely one set of confusing garble to her. Sorry, but it sounds like that. And being a smart mare, she is expressing her attitude about that with the bucks. A horse turning in the round pen with their butt toward you is not necesarily a bad thing. If the hroes is at all aggressive, like a horse that will bite or come at the handler, you would WANT it to turn away from you. It is more vulnerable and easier to control with a swish of the line . It is true that you want to work toward having her turn by drawing her toward you mentally, and having her turn toward you with her eyes and head first, then following your direction, but just the fact that she turns with her butt toward you is not the issue.
Kicking out AT you is different than just kicking out of a bit of irritation at being made to work. In the second case, I would just remind the horse to keep moving, in the former, I'd be a lot bigger and more firm to get the hrose to feel that doing what she did brought about a real commotion or a swat on the hiney (can be dangerous, though).

The second horse is a gelding named Cody. I just got him a couple months ago and I don't know if he has ever been lunged before. All he wants to do is be as close to me as possible. Does anyone have any tips about teaching him the cues, getting him moving, and getting him to give me space? Thanks a bunch!
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it's great that the new gelding wants to be close to you, but he also needs to be ok with being "sent" somewhere. Start learning how to send him away from you, send him over to somthing, send him through a gate, over to a water tub, . . Get creative, but get him ok with both being asked to move away, stay away (have him stand 8 feet off and just let him stand there and do NOTHING), and come back to you. Be sure you make him stop when he approaches , one arm's length away is rock bottom minimum. Then YOU approach HIM.
     
    01-03-2014, 11:30 PM
  #6
Green Broke
Many people get into trouble when they try "join-up" simply because they don't know when to add pressure or when to release.
For example, a smart horse will learn that if he just stops running and comes to you, that you will stop chasing him.
This does not mean that he has submitted, this means that he has outsmarted you.
First of all, you never let the horse decide when the "lesson" is over, simply because he comes running to you. Horses like that eventually become unwilling all together, stubborn and even mean if they feel they can easily get out of doing what you want simply by being slow or sticking close.
That being said, if the horse already has issues with being with/coming to you, you don't want to discourage this. Reward it with a simple pat, wait a second and then ask the horse to move out more strongly than before.

It's also key that you know when the horse is giving you certain signals. Head lowering, plenty of blowing through the nose, body arched inwards, lip licking and always one ear on you. This is when you release all pressure and allow him to come in. If he doesn't, keep on after him but only apply as much pressure as it takes to keep him moving.
Not all horses "join-up" on the first try and some take several reminders. Horses are constantly battling with one another for position in their heirachy, and that includes you as well, so depending on how dominant-natured your horse is, you may need to remind them every now and then.

All that being said, any form of NH shouldn't be done half way. You can't do join-up once and expect it to cure your horses' bonding problems forever. It takes time, dedication, understanding and patience.
If your horse avoids you, that is because he/she sees you as something that needs to be avoided.
Change that. Spend time simply brushing the horse, bringing her treats, take her for a walk or out for grass. Catch her and turn her loose right away so that she doesn't learn to associate you & the halter with unpleasant work. It might not be your fault; she may have learned these habits from past experiences with people, but animals are quite capable of letting go of the past and adapting.
None if this will improve your riding skills, but it will help to improve your horse's opinion of you and make her more willing or even eager to be with you ;)
     
    03-18-2014, 04:43 PM
  #7
Foal
I didn't read everyone else's posts so I might be repeating, anyway this is how I work Well, the goal is to have her follow you but that is not all hooking on or aka joining up is all about its about the bond between you and the horse and getting the horse to trust you. You want to free lounge her, (its easiest in a round pen but not necessary) let her trot or canter but don't let her stop or walk. Change directions every couple of laps but in different spots at different times so she does not predict when and where you are going to turn her, if she turns away from you so her hindquarters is towards turn her back around and do it again so she turns into you (hope that makes since), keep doing this until she calms down and lowers her head and/or licks her lips, once she does this act like you are going to turn her but instead have her stop facing you. Turn away from her (but watch her out of the corner of your eye) and cock one of your legs so your not intimidating. She should walk up to you and let her touch you first. Then you can rub her for a second but then walk away and she should follow you, if at any point of this last section she backs away from you more then 3 steps or she turns away, send her back out and repeat this whole thing, remember it takes patience and if you act like you are in a hurry it will take you all day if you act like you have all day it will take you less time! Hope this helps, it is kind of hard to put into words for me...
     
    03-28-2014, 04:49 PM
  #8
Foal
Round Penning & Join Up were in days gone by the main increment to a horse training recipe. Years ago I tried this technique with six horse I was starting, they had different desirable & undesirable traits [personalities]. Honestly I was partially successful with one! Rather than have the horse submit to me and think they would accept me as the herd leader; I was not foolish enough to think that the horse would every think I was a horse. I felt that I needed to fit into its herd, establish some sort of working relationship to be trusted, fair, considerate and for who I would be recognized as its leader. So from that day forth my Foundation of Ground Training consists of desensitizing and sensitizing exercises that are logical and progressive to the horse:

Part 1:
A. Ground Handling on lead
B. Ground Manners on lead
C. Ground exercises on lead
Part 2:
A. Ground Control & Lunging exercises that parallel maneuvers in the saddle [Body Control]
B. Lunging exercises on lead over barrels, tarps, up/down hills, across water etc.
C. Lunging with dummy rider on its back etc
D. Round Penning free style using exercise a., b. & c above

Although this is not my whole training program but an overview and believe you me my horses do join up with me and I do not have to chase them...bonus
     

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