Julie Goodnight: shock collar for horses (o-o!)
   

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Julie Goodnight: shock collar for horses (o-o!)

This is a discussion on Julie Goodnight: shock collar for horses (o-o!) within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Shock collar for training horses
  • Dog shock collar on horse

 
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    03-26-2010, 07:58 AM
  #1
Showing
Julie Goodnight: shock collar for horses (o-o!)

Lets step off from poor LP , and switch to something which looks much more ridiculous IMO.

I must admit I've seen Julie Goodnight in person at the Expo, and she seemed like a very reasonable trainer to me, and I went to her site from time to time. Now this Julie Goodnight Natural Horsemanship / Horse Master TV Show was pretty shocking for me to read.

"There is one sure-fired method of curing aggressive horses and I have used it a few times for this purpose. It is a shock collar. It straps around the horse’s neck and is operated off a remote control, issuing a mild and brief shock when you push the button on the remote. Shocking her for her two or three times for her unwarranted and dangerous behavior would probably be all it would take to permanently resolve her of the aggressiveness.

It is intended for use with extreme behavior that is harmful to horse, humans and/or property and it is highly effective. I’ve used it for stall and trailer kickers, for aggressive horses and for a tantrum throwing horse, who threw a wall-eyed destructive tantrum any time you’d take his buddy away. In most cases, one or two training sessions resolved the bad behavior; for the tantrum thrower, it took a few more.

Many people are initially turned off by this approach—I suppose thinking it is cruel or too harsh. But in my opinion, in certain circumstances, it is the most humane approach."

YES, I think this approach IS cruel AND very VERY far from "natural" horsemanship. All good trainers say you have to learn the horse, how it moves, how it behaves, and then go from there. THAT is pretty much different. Also I don't believe it changes aggressive horse unless you stand in field for 7 days in row doing that. I don't know about HER horses, but my horses challenge each other EVERY SINGLE DAY 20 times on day. And even though my paint get a reprimand from my qh every single time (although I must admit no bite marks, no ripped off blankets, I bet because paint is much faster) she keeps trying every day. Will collar stop that? I highly doubt.

So opinions? Arguments? Thoughts?
     
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    03-26-2010, 08:14 AM
  #2
Showing
**shakes head in amazement**

I saw that elsewhere and, at first I was appalled; then I stopped to think about it. Personally, I don't like the idea but I would like to see how this discussion goes. This idea was not from some yahoo but a very well respected horsewoman.
     
    03-26-2010, 08:31 AM
  #3
Weanling
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE NEVER USE THOSE

I had a foster horse a few years back who was litterally driven mentally insane from those. It took 2 years to be able to touch his face after a shock collar was used on him.
It made him so aggressive he would rear up and try to kick anything that comes near him. People, dogs, horses, tractors, trucks, anything.
He finally got a foever home, but he is mentally scared for life.
Those things are horrible
     
    03-26-2010, 08:36 AM
  #4
Banned
Well, we use them on dogs to teach them to stay within a prescribed area and to adjust unwanted behavior like barking, and it works. What makes its use on horses different?

Now, I just know somebody is going to assume that that means I'm advocating their use for the situation being described in the link. If you wore a shock collar and you got shocked every time you made an assumption like that, how many times would you need to be shocked before you stopped making assumptions?

See, it was just a question I threw out there to make people think.
     
    03-26-2010, 08:39 AM
  #5
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyycutter    
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE NEVER USE THOSE

I had a foster horse a few years back who was litterally driven mentally insane from those. It took 2 years to be able to touch his face after a shock collar was used on him.
It made him so aggressive he would rear up and try to kick anything that comes near him. People, dogs, horses, tractors, trucks, anything.
He finally got a foever home, but he is mentally scared for life.
Those things are horrible
Those things are definitely horrible when *misused*

I have a horse who was beaten with a whip...for years. She never really did get over the beatings. Does that mean whips are horrible?

Carefully people...don't make an assumption now. Just another question.
     
    03-26-2010, 08:45 AM
  #6
Foal
Im just going to say that i would never use one on a horse.!


But who here has electic fences?
     
    03-26-2010, 08:49 AM
  #7
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSpur    
but who here has electic fences?


Good one!
     
    03-26-2010, 09:40 AM
  #8
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercedes    
Well, we use them on dogs to teach them to stay within a prescribed area and to adjust unwanted behavior like barking, and it works. What makes its use on horses different?

Now, I just know somebody is going to assume that that means I'm advocating their use for the situation being described in the link. If you wore a shock collar and you got shocked every time you made an assumption like that, how many times would you need to be shocked before you stopped making assumptions?

See, it was just a question I threw out there to make people think.
First, I don't think you advocate using it. :) That's a very good question to ask.

Personally I don't like when it's used on dogs either. However IMO dogs are very different from horses mentally (although I must admit I havnt' met the shock collar trained dogs in person). Dogs don't have, say, those panic attacks or scared by everything and such, in many ways they are also treated differently then horses. Lol! Each horse is still a wild animal (well, I'm kinda exaggerating of course, but I mean the habits and behavior). While dogs are already very far from wolfs at this point. A

Now as for electric fence, I'd compare it with the thorny bushes. It hits it once or twice with the nose and realizes it's not fun. Same with with the fence. Now with the shock collar it'll come from nowhere and as a punishment for normal horse behavior (the aggression and establishing alpha) or scary horse (kicking the trailer). I agree with heyycutter I think the use of shock collar can break horse mentally.
     
    03-26-2010, 09:47 AM
  #9
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSpur    
im just going to say that i would never use one on a horse.!


But who here has electic fences?
That's an excellent point! Basically, an electric fence IS sort of a remote-control way for the owner to keep the livestock in, without the owner having to be there and without a less visible barrier than a post and rail-type fence. The "punishment" for trying to get out is a *zap*, and it doesn't take the horse long to figure out not to touch the wire.

Not saying I support the use of shock collars on horses, and I think some of these NH "professionals" need to be a little more cautious about the methods they are recommending, considering that many of their eager pupils are relatively inexperienced with horses.

I'd be cautious about encouraging a novice owner to attempt to use a shock collar for "training." There is a very good possibility they will end up causing the horse to become a neurotic, mental mess.
     
    03-26-2010, 09:49 AM
  #10
mls
Trained
We've used one. Had a nasty a$$ cribber/windsucker. It slowed him down but did not stop him. He was just too much of a junkie. (we did try the regular nut cracker and basket muzzle first)

Owner was ok at first but then decided it was 'natural' for him to walk about bloated all the time. We eventually had to ask her to leave. (destroying white oak fence) Sad thing is - the horse did die from colic. (after two surgery for displaced colon).

Have any of you ever used a squirt bottle to train a kitten or puppy to not jump, claw, etc? The idea behind the shock collar is the same. The correction comes with no obvious human interaction. The shock can be adjusted for the needs of the animal - just as an electric fence is.
     

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