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Julie Goodnight: shock collar for horses (o-o!)

This is a discussion on Julie Goodnight: shock collar for horses (o-o!) within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Julie goodnight abused horses
  • Horse shock collar fence

 
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    03-26-2010, 12:02 PM
  #21
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by mls    
Are you serious? You have never had a smart horse. We've had horses (ponies are especially guilty) that KNOW when the fence is off or shorted out.
There is a sound (vibration) they can hear, so I'm not surprised. My horses always knew when it was off. My biggest concern with the electric fence (I'm NOT against it at all BTW) was we had to ride past it and with younger horses who could bolt it was a good possibility they could run YOU into the fence (almost happened once with BO).
     
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    03-26-2010, 12:05 PM
  #22
mls
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
To all people who say it's OK. Have you ever tried the shock on yourself?
Actually - yes. To show the boarder it wasn't so terrible.

And my bare skin - vs the horse with a thicker hide and hair to cover the area.

Personally detest electric fences. We had cattle and sheep growing up. Fence had to be H O T to keep them in.
     
    03-26-2010, 12:24 PM
  #23
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Badger    
I think some of these NH "professionals" need to be a little more cautious about the methods they are recommending, considering that many of their eager pupils are relatively inexperienced with horses.
Agree with this. What a professional might use as a last resort in specially difficult situations is not necessarily something that said professional should be advocating to the far less experienced public. Especially when it has an evil-sounding name like "shock." People either respond as if it's Cuckoo's Nest for horses, or they think it might be a good idea for cribbing, which would be at the BOTTOM of my personal list.
     
    03-26-2010, 12:56 PM
  #24
Yearling
I think in extreme cases in experienced hands it could be usefull. I think Julie Goodnight qualifies as experienced. I don't think she was meaning to cure ALL aggression in the horse in question, but the unreasonable and dangerous behaviour. I do think however, that she needs to clarify that it should only be used by very experienced and qualified people.

My family has trained field dogs for 3 generations and yes, we use the shock collars. You can turn them down so low that it feels like a little bump. Pretty far from a shock. Our dogs are friendly and happy. We did use the collar aggressively with a great dane once (a client dog)- the dog had a bad habbit of chasing foals and had run one through a fence. We had to turn the collar up to 50% before we resolved the issue, but at least it was resolved and the dog got to keep breathing. The owners were ready to have him put down.
     
    03-26-2010, 01:12 PM
  #25
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by justsambam08    
It keeps the horses off the fence, and it also keeps other animals out.


It keeps other animals out?

You must have your fence set up with lots of strands very close together, very close to the ground and very high.

On any given day I see various forms of wildlife trotting across my pasture (shortest distance is a straight line). Fence on, and it is strong. Coyote, fox, deer, turkey, etc. They all figure out how to go over, under or through with out getting shocked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justsambam08    
The animal also controls when its zapped on an electric fence. They learn once and then never try it again, but with a human controlled device, its too easy to be misused.
Do not have shock collar experience with horses but the animal does have control over getting zapped again. They quickly learn what behaviors get them a zap and what do not.


The amount of salts in our body make a dog shock collar feel different to us than they do to a dog, btw. So saying 'have you ever felt that' does not mean much.
     
    03-26-2010, 01:23 PM
  #26
Yearling
I hated shock collars til my boyfriend bought one to train his new hunting dog. I still hated them, but they are effective training tools and the dog isn't scared of it (plus his is adjustable). When it came down to giving the dog a shock or upsetting a flock of ducks and a whole hunting season, he didn't have much choice.

As far as on horses, I would really have to see it in practice before I made up my mind. Also, if I was going to use it on my horse I'd try it on myself first. I was standing in a puddle and got electric fence on the forehead (don't ask LOL) and it wasn't honestly terrible. It's more like OMG I JUST GOT SHOCKED then OMG THAT HURT SO SO BAD!!.

And as far as the fence debate thing, my electrobraid doesn't make any noise (got shocked on the ear trying to figure that one out) but my large pony KNOWS when that thing is off. He'll actually lean his chest against the rope when he knows its off!
     
    03-26-2010, 01:34 PM
  #27
Foal
I can see using very mild electronic collars on predator animals, but certainly not on prey.
In my opinion, it's a 'quick fix' to a bigger problem. I don't know abotu anyone else here, but I'd much rather have a horse respect me than a collar.
I've also seen her, and personally met and conversed with her. This is one thing I didn't see coming.

I also thoguht about the electric fences thing, before I even read through the spots. But, after a moment of consideration, the difference lies in the consistency. Electric fences are constant things that hit a horse every single time they touch it without fail. On the other hand, such a powerful device as a shock collar has the potential to be VERY easily misused, and relied too heavily upon. Once the horse figures out that the reinforcement comes from the collar, you're back to square one- or maybe even further back than you were.
     
    03-26-2010, 01:37 PM
  #28
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by mls    
Actually - yes. To show the boarder it wasn't so terrible.

And my bare skin - vs the horse with a thicker hide and hair to cover the area.

Personally detest electric fences. We had cattle and sheep growing up. Fence had to be H O T to keep them in.
It probably depends on person to person then (probably skin, weight and such). My experience was completely awful.
     
    03-26-2010, 01:52 PM
  #29
Trained
I must be an abusive sucker because I have no problem with a shock collar. If you use one correctly (and I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to use one correctly) it is an effective tool and can help cure horses of behavior that is dangerous for them and for people. It should be used as a last resort but it is not as cruel as things I have seen people do when horses get dangerous to be around or start destroying property. There are some times when you can not get to a horse to correct it. If a horse paws constantly in a trailer or bites other horses in a trailer there is nothing you can physically do to stop it but I bet a little bump with the shock collar would stop it in a hurry.

Some of the previous posters have made up thier mind based on emotion and not on critical thinking. I doubt that Miss Goodnight endorsed it without some thought. She saw a tool that will help horses and in turn help people. I'm sure you can abuse a horse with one but it's probably no easier than abusing them with a whip or a chain lead or spurs. It's the mind of the person using the tool that determines if it will be abused not the tool itself. If I go out and cram a big spade bit into a two year olds mouth and go to yanking on it that would be abuse. If I took the same bit and put it in a well trained seasoned horses mouth where I would only have to lift a rein on shift in the saddle to get what I need then it is very humane and comfortable for the horse. Take out the emotional knee-jerk reactions and think critically and I believe most of you will see the wisdom in what Miss Goodnight is saying.
     
    03-26-2010, 02:35 PM
  #30
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSpur    
im just going to say that i would never use one on a horse.!


But who here has electic fences?
I do not use electric fences or shock collars on any of my hunting dogs. I have dogs that I have trained who have multiple AKC titles and hunt and not one was trained or uses a shock color. If you can train you do not need one. They are simple short cuts for lazy people.
     

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