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Julie Goodnight...Thoughts?

This is a discussion on Julie Goodnight...Thoughts? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        09-17-2009, 08:58 PM
      #11
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by roro    
    Yeah, nice try. The only time it is acceptable to "give a horse's mouth a good yank" is during a buck/spook etc to stop the horse from bucking or rearing or what not. To encourage the horse to do something, you use the LEG aids and your seat, not the rein aids. You will not get a horse to move forward by yanking his mouth around. Rein pressure=good. Yanking=bad. ANYBODY can yank on a horse's mouth. I see a lot of little kids yanking on their horses at shows. It takes no talent and shows impatience on the rider's part. Why would somebody pay to work with this Julie when they can learn yanking from a bad rider for free?
    That's exactly my point. She wasn't just giving the horse a 'wake up' call, but the yanks on the mouth were out of bounds in my book. And the horse was already in a state where she could have gone up...yeah, give her a yank, and cause her to go up more??? A horse that doesn't understand forward needs to learn that we control his feet, yes, and you may have to put him into circles, but yanking on his mouth is never the right answer to get that control.

    Kevin, I respect your opinion, but I have worked with horses like the mare that was on the show, but changing the bit, nor yanking on them was how I got them out of it; my appy, who is now ready to find a new home (project horse), was like that, and I gaurentee you, if I had put a harsher bit than a snaffle, OR slammed him to a stop he would have landed on top of me. Instead I started teaching him to just move his feet...it didn't matter that we were going in circles, but I was still getting what I wanted, and he was still learning he HAD to 'go forward' whether he wanted to or not; he was also staying calmer, and remaining in a thinking frame of mind, rather than a reactive state of mind...not only that but he is extremely soft in the bit now, and will bend and flex very nicely. I don't think a high calibar bit, or harsh hands is EVER the answer to 'waking a horse up'. If it works for the horses you train, cool, but I won't do it that way ;)
         
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        09-22-2009, 09:15 PM
      #12
    Yearling
    I agree with Kevin, if you have a horse that's ignoring your aid whether it's rein, leg, whatever you need to get as loud as you need to, in order to get a response. If she was using soft hands and the horse was ignoring her, then short sharp TUGS are needed to wake the horse up and get them clueing into you. Just because someone is using more force than you think necessary does not mean that it is not justified. Now, I'm not saying that she might not have used too much force but if the horse responded well after she was done then there had to be some merit to it. Also, who is not tense when they are being reprimanded? I think it's ridiculous for people to say that they never need to reprimand their horses. All horses feel the need every once in a while to push the envelope, or have a bad day and want to ignore your aids. Allowing a horse to dictate what they will or will not do to you is a lot more dangerous and less helpful for the horse than a few sharp tugs on his mouth to make him listen in my opinion.
         
        09-25-2009, 02:34 AM
      #13
    Trained
    What you aren't getting is that the horse was trying to listen, she didn't 'need' the forceful reprimands. But if you feel you gotta jerk a horse around to wake him up, that's your opinion; I won't ruin a horse's mouth, or give him a reason to remain tense, if I can help it, and I've never wound up with a dangerous horse on my hands through being respectful in that way...in fact the Appy who I took on a couple of months ago has come so far that we have ridden in a neck rope; this was a horse who had no stop, was barn sour, had no concept of direct rein turn, bend, etc and was extremely anxious while being ridden. I can get up on him with out a halter and lead out in the outer field and let him graze, and ask him to move to a different spot without him getting upset or rushing. When I first started him back in May, he wouldn't even accept a treat while he was being ridden; he thought he had to be moving all the time...he wouldn't relax!

    I know there's tons of ways to train a horse, so I'm not saying you all are wrong, I just don't favor some trainer's ideas of a 'wake up call'. I don't think some of those methods serve to improve a relationship; sure the horse may listen to you, but is it because he respects and trusts you, or because he's afraid you're going to yank on him? I figure if you can't ride in a rope halter, or simple snaffle bit, you've got work to do, because a bit shouldn't determine the level of control you have.
         
        09-25-2009, 12:06 PM
      #14
    Trained
    Sounds like your mind is made up. Why are you insisting on arguing? You ask for thoughts and that's what you got.
         
        10-01-2009, 01:55 AM
      #15
    Foal
    Look out! Another opinion coming your way!

    I guess I'm from the crowd of NEVER EVER yank on a horse's mouth. I didn't see that episode that Mom2Pride must of seen....but I did go to Youtube and saw one of her videos where I was so disgusted I wrote to her directly asking her (in a nice and polite way) why she did what she did....

    She was gracious enough to answer me back, very quickly, I might ad.

    And I was still left with a knot in my gut about what she was doing to teach a horse that bolted to stop....it consisted of yanking the horse in the mouth and hollowing out the back by pulling the rein UP with one rein....I personally reject that "method" because of the real one rein stop, which has proven time and again to be a way to teach a horse to stop via the hip = bending = softening = work off the hind quarters....instant stop.....there's no yanking or hollow back or high headedness.....stuff that I want to steer away from and never would teach someone to do regardless.....

    Sorry, but just because someone has a tv show and has done all that she's done...doesn't mean she's right. There's a big name trainer here who has his own RFDtv show....yet, I'm fixing a horse that he gave up on, because according to him...the horse is a bully, can't learn, is neurological and he's like riding a mac-truck. Um. Yeah. The first day I worked with that horse, I found out half the problem....his neck was "out!" .... if that trainer had bothered to just pay closer attention, he'd of told the owner to get a chiropractor, and then he'd of been able to "break through" ....but he didn't. But he's trained lots of horses and has a tv show and makes loads of $$$.

    I'm not slamming him. I'm just saying....just because the name is well known, doesn't mean the trainer is right no matter what. He's human. He messes up.

    Back to Julie Goodnight,....I have watched some of her shows (when I had RFDtv....but Directv has stopped that habit! **** them)...... and although I cringe at the "horsemaster" title and the cheesy music (sorry, too girly foo foo for me)...... I did like some of her ideas but I wouldn't bet the farm on her entirely, either. She's human and she makes mistakes.
         

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