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Losing Faith in the Horse World

This is a discussion on Losing Faith in the Horse World within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        04-25-2010, 07:16 PM
      #21
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FlitterBug    
    I know this has been done to death, but it really bothers me how an accomplished athlete of a horse can be ignored and sloppy mediocrity can be awarded by the masses. Will people ever see that there is a difference between obedience and correctness? I have seen many horses physically crippled through that program, made insecure in everything but their methods, yet the people keep coming in force.
    That's what's called correct PR (and commercials).

    Plus lots of people who come to watch such events are beginner riders (if riders at all), so often they don't see (and understand) the difference. And I can understand that. To me dressage is very boring to watch (unless it's a very high level music performance). Sorry, no offense to anyone! It IS useful (and in fact I went to the clinic with the dressage trainer this weekend), but if you don't look for something specific but just came to the event to have some fun and relax it's just not fun to watch. So only people who truly want to learn something goes there. I've seen at the Expos too number of times. On other hand all those NH performances are generally fun to watch (if you don't notice the tense horses with pinned ears of course). I'm not saying ALL "NH" performances are like that (clumsy), but number of them are. Some (Stacy Westfall or Craig Cameron would be good examples) are indeed very beneficial and horses look like they enjoy what they are doing.
         
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        04-25-2010, 07:22 PM
      #22
    Banned
    Isnt NH for the horse? Not to make the rider feel natural? If so, why do the horses look upset many times? Hmm....
    If you really wanna be as close to natural as you can get without releasing htem into the wild, just hop on breback and naked with just a rope on their neck.
         
        04-25-2010, 07:33 PM
      #23
    Green Broke
    I think this is where we, as horse people, need to use our own heads. I think there is something to learn from everybody out there...from their successes and their mistakes. I think it's good to get into the psychology of the horse and know what is driving the horse and work off of that. I do think a lot of the methods of Parelli and Goodnight are plain Silly and basically done to get attention and make money. Have any of you seen how much Julie Goodnight's site charges for that silly flag on the stick? I know someone who uses one of those and all her horses pretty much act like she is a major joke, you can see it in their eyes as they walk all over her. There is no one way that works for everybody in the whole world.

    I think a TRUE horse person would want to benefit those who want to learn for the sake of them as well as their horses, not make money off of them. I think those of us who have been in the horse world all need to use our heads and when we see a clinic or video.. think for ourselves with our own brains on what parts are actually beneficial to our circumstances and which parts we know are complete crap. Just because someone has made themselves famous by selling 80 dollar dressage sticks with yellow grocery bags on them, doesn't mean they are the messiah of the horse world and we should bow down to them.....but I don't think they should be ignored altogether either because there are some small things they teach that do make sense.
         
        04-25-2010, 07:35 PM
      #24
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thunderhooves    
    Isnt NH for the horse? Not to make the rider feel natural? If so, why do the horses look upset many times? Hmm....
    If you really wanna be as close to natural as you can get without releasing htem into the wild, just hop on breback and naked with just a rope on their neck.
    NH is different for a lot of people, some people think its about being natural, I've always been taught its just about understanding the way the horse thinks and their body language, and working on my body language so that I can tell my horse to stand there, and not come near me, or anything else I want her to do. I've always been taught NH is about learning to 'speak' the horses language, rather then to expect them to learn ours.

    When horses start doing tricks and stuff, well, you can't really call that NH anymore,can you? Because horses don't do tricks naturally by themselves.
         
        04-25-2010, 07:41 PM
      #25
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cinnys Whinny    
    I think this is where we, as horse people, need to use our own heads. I think there is something to learn from everybody out there...from their successes and their mistakes. I think it's good to get into the psychology of the horse and know what is driving the horse and work off of that. I do think a lot of the methods of Parelli and Goodnight are plain Silly and basically done to get attention and make money. Have any of you seen how much Julie Goodnight's site charges for that silly flag on the stick? I know someone who uses one of those and all her horses pretty much act like she is a major joke, you can see it in their eyes as they walk all over her. There is no one way that works for everybody in the whole world.

    I think a TRUE horse person would want to benefit those who want to learn for the sake of them as well as their horses, not make money off of them. I think those of us who have been in the horse world all need to use our heads and when we see a clinic or video.. think for ourselves with our own brains on what parts are actually beneficial to our circumstances and which parts we know are complete crap. Just because someone has made themselves famous by selling 80 dollar dressage sticks with yellow grocery bags on them, doesn't mean they are the messiah of the horse world and we should bow down to them.....but I don't think they should be ignored altogether either because there are some small things they teach that do make sense.
    oooo I love your post! Tehehe I have one of those 'silly flags on a stick' I made mine, haha I got a piece of cloth and tied it to the end of a sawdered off metal pole with a handle. Haha it looks exactly like the ones I've seen people pay 80 dollars for. I think it has to be used properly though, the hroses must *respect it, and when I say respect I do not mean fear, because getting respect and fear mixed up is silly, they are compeletly diffferent things
    The thing wrong with parelli is he creates robots. Robots who follow him like little clones, and can't think for themselves, which IMO is one of the most important things in the horse world :)
         
        04-25-2010, 07:44 PM
      #26
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ridergirl23    
    When horses start doing tricks and stuff, well, you can't really call that NH anymore,can you? because horses don't do tricks naturally by themselves.
    I think it depends on horse. Jemma made people laughing at the clinic yesterday by rolling those huge scary balls around the arena (it was dressage clinic, not the trick or NH one). I was mounted, but gave a free rein and let her play while we had a break. I did not teach her, she was just having fun by herself.
         
        04-25-2010, 07:53 PM
      #27
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ridergirl23    
    oooo I love your post! Tehehe I have one of those 'silly flags on a stick' I made mine, haha I got a piece of cloth and tied it to the end of a sawdered off metal pole with a handle. Haha it looks exactly like the ones I've seen people pay 80 dollars for. I think it has to be used properly though, the hroses must *respect it, and when I say respect I do not mean fear, because getting respect and fear mixed up is silly, they are compeletly diffferent things
    I agree with you on the flag respect...but I also think some horses can respect poeple without the flag....like I said, different things work in different situations and I think that's hat makes anybody a teacher....I think there is no wrong or right, it is what works to make you and your horse a successful team.

    The person I was talking about...I'm always having to pull her horses off of her, they almost seem to like to show off to people how NOT in control their owner is ha ha.
         
        04-25-2010, 07:58 PM
      #28
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
    I think it depends on horse. Jemma made people laughing at the clinic yesterday by rolling those huge scary balls around the arena (it was dressage clinic, not the trick or NH one). I was mounted, but gave a free rein and let her play while we had a break. I did not teach her, she was just having fun by herself.
    Haha that sounds like it would be funny to see!
    Im talking about tricks like, sitting down, or laying down on command or something.
    Horses definitely have a sense of fun, I wouldnt really count that as a trick, more jsut the horse having some fun
    My idea of a trick is , making them bow or something, which I have seen lots of horses enjoy doing... because they know they get treats after
         
        04-25-2010, 08:01 PM
      #29
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cinnys Whinny    
    I agree with you on the flag respect...but I also think some horses can respect poeple without the flag....like I said, different things work in different situations and I think that's hat makes anybody a teacher....I think there is no wrong or right, it is what works to make you and your horse a successful team.

    The person I was talking about...I'm always having to pull her horses off of her, they almost seem to like to show off to people how NOT in control their owner is ha ha.
    oh that's funny how you say that! I was going to add that toomy post! Haha
    I would only use the flag I think when I had an extremely agressive horse and I needed something extra to really get my point across. But in the end I think your horses neeed to respect you wihtout the flag, because can you imagine how annoying it would be to have to carry a flag around everywhere with you?!
         
        04-25-2010, 08:13 PM
      #30
    Started
    What one calls 'tricks' someone else calls preparation. For example standing on a pedestal. If the horse can't do that successfully he might have issues getting into a trailer. If a horse can't tolorate having a ball bounced around he might have the tendency to spook at a big stimulus, say out on the trail. We prepare the horse to be calm in crazy situations and to look to us for guidence and not to freak out.

    I recently worked with a horse who would. Not. Get in the trailer, no matter what the owner did. I was her last resort because she needed to get this horse to the trainer's barn....this was also going to be the first time the horse had been hauled, ever. She was skeptical because I do Parelli, but she had no other options. The first day I worked on basic yields (FQ, HQ, back up, come forward), backing over a pole, standing on things, getting the horse to go between me and objects to test how claustrophobic he was....after all the preperation we went to the trailer and after awhile he was loaded. However I wasn't satisfied with his confidence level inside the trailer, so I stopped at a good point and was going to continue the next day. Day two was a very quick refresher, also adding in a bit of circling, and soon he was loading and unloading (which was a huge problem for him) confidently. I then tested our rapport by turning him loose at Liberty to see if he would load for me and he did from 25 ft. Away from the trailer. I told the owner he was ready to haul and he acted like an old pro in the trailer, stood well to be tied and everything. He unloaded beautifully at the trainer's barn. So all those "tricks" and "silly things" paid off BIG TIME....there is something to it if one is willing to look and be open.
         

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