Maybe a bit overzealous...

Haha agreed Kevin! And if you're splitting hairs, isn't riding bridleless and saddleless but having no balance and slamming around on your horse's back abuse? I have seen a lot of NH followers flopping around on confused horses because they don't have the skill set to ride without tack...to me confusing the heck outta the horse just because you don't believe in tack is a lot worse than using tack to lead and help the horse understand and develop into a better being. *climbing off soapbox* That said...I use a lot of techniques from NH and I respect the people like Honza that are TRUELY one with their horses.

Just to play devil's advocate, I've seen PLENTY of non-NHers bounce around bareback on their horses keep in mind.

All I can say is horses are stupid and not always willing to cooperate. I'd rather have a bit in my horse's mouth the day he decides to spook, freak out and otherwise and fall apart, than have no back up and die of my horse's stupidity. We all know how they get.

I don't like to watch bad situations after they've happened; I'm one of those 'better safe than sorry' folks :)

That still makes absolutely NO sense.

Riding a horse is NOT natural. Period.

How is not using a saddle any less 'natural'?

'Natural' Horsemanship should really be 'Good' or 'Better' Horsemanship.

There's nothing natural about riding a horse.

Oh come on now -- haven't you all read Black Beauty? You know: how he had been mistreated as a carriage horse with all that tack and in the end got to be free with his friend? We're all supposed to be like that -- mis-using tack, mis-treating our horses, over-competing, etc. etc. all so that we can have an awe-inspiring turn around to have a perfect, pure relationship with our horses that love us every single day and never spook, or trip, or just have a bad day. What's the point of NH if we all haven't abused our horses first so we can appreciate the difference???? (rolling eyes)

Spirithorse, I get what your saying. I think the point people are trying to make is that there is no differance between good horsemanship and "natural" horsemanship

^^ Agreed Spastic, good horsemanship is good horsemanship whether it is labelled "natural" or "classical" or "traditional". Each is just slightly different in the methods used to work with the horse in order to help him (and you) reach full potential.

It all really depends on the experience and understanding of the handler. I have seen traditional "cowboys" who were wonderful horsemen and I have seen devout NH'ers who couldn't tell the horse's head from his tail. Of course, I have also seen the other end of the spectrum with horribly stupid and cruel cowboys and gentle, understanding, knowledgeable NH'ers.

Very well put, smrobs and Spastic!

It's how the aids are used, not that the aids are there. The only reason I say aids is that, as Nittany and Spirithorse said, the natural aids (weight, seat, legs, hands, voice) have the capacity to be just as abusive as a double bridle and a whip. A tool is a tool. It's the mentality, understanding, and intent of the user that determine whether the tool abuses, confuses, or helps. Double bridles are there for communication, not control. Like having DSL instead of dial-up Internet.

That being said, I have great respect for anyone who can get the training results that they seek, whether they want to perform a beautiful GP half-pass in tack, or do a tackless reining pattern.

And, that tackless half-pass was fantastic!

*round of appluase*

Absolutely excellent quote! You pretty much summed up an entire arguement in one sentence!

I pretty much said the same thing..

But anyhow, I think the whole 'NA' name is just another eye-appealing trainer thing. Like each trainer has their own tack line; some have stolen each other's products and given it a new name so they can sell it.