Natural H'ship, No Way ! (video) - Page 3

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Natural H'ship, No Way ! (video)

This is a discussion on Natural H'ship, No Way ! (video) within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • What is flanking out a horse
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    07-17-2011, 03:58 PM

That is part of a progression, you prepare for the flanking out (as I call it) by the time I get to that point I have already established several other steps.... I wouldn't take a young never touched horse and introduce him to my flag on day one, I will do the "join up" thing.... Horses are like us we had to learn the alphabet before we learned to spell, learned to spell before we learned to write (still working on the spelling myself!!!)
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    07-17-2011, 04:12 PM
Green Broke
Originally Posted by ledge    

That is part of a progression, you prepare for the flanking out (as I call it) by the time I get to that point I have already established several other steps.... I wouldn't take a young never touched horse and introduce him to my flag on day one, I will do the "join up" thing.... Horses are like us we had to learn the alphabet before we learned to spell, learned to spell before we learned to write (still working on the spelling myself!!!)
I don't mean to sound snarky, I'm truely curious. Does this mean that my horse is missing part of his training because nobody has ever done this portion with him? Is this bad, and is this a basic that maybe I should go back to?
    07-17-2011, 04:20 PM
No not at all, all horses are different and require different progressions, I was just saying with anything you train a horse to do its a progression... whether you are watching those guys on RFD or specializing in your discipline..... mostly it comes down to the amount of sweat equity you put into the horse, I've learned the more I work with the horse the better we both get.
    07-17-2011, 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by Cinnys Whinny    
I have no clue what those techniques were supposed to train the horse to do??????
If they are done properly, then they desensitize a horse to pressure all over their body and teach them that they aren't going to get hurt so there is no reason for them to buck. I've seen lots of people get bucked off (and some of them hurt bad) because their cinch hobble broke on their saddle and their back cinch slid back into the horse's flank, or like Ledge said, a horse gets a rope under their tail during ranch work or roping. If a horse has never had pressure there before and learned that, while it may be uncomfortable, bucking/kicking is not an appropriate response, then people can get seriously hurt.

It's not something that you do instantly on the very first time you handle them, they are prepared for it first. I usually use my hands at first and, after they are used to being touched everywhere, I will apply pressure to one side of a horse's flank. Most of them just look at you like "What are you doing, you nut" or, at worst, pin their ears and pick up a hind leg in a half-assed threat of kicking. But, if you take a bit of time and work with them, then when you do use the flank rope, they may bring their head up and tilt their ears, but most of them don't kick or buck. Same thing with the tail rope. They are comfortable with me touching all around/under their tail before I ever bring the rope into it.

Just like this filly. She reacted better than some but it was a pretty typical reaction that I get. She kinda clamped her butt for a minute and ran a little faster until she figured out that it didn't really hurt, then she just trotted out like nothing was there. Because I did that, the chance of her bucking off her owner in the event that something gets stuck under her tail is much less than it would have been.
    07-17-2011, 06:37 PM
Green Broke
Okay, I get it. Cin is used to some of that stuff, I've put ropes just about anywhere on him...but he just can't get over anything going around his flanks. We have now been working with a Western trail saddle without buck but I don't dare put a back cinch on him. When I tried my friend's saddle on him I made the mistake of leaving the back cinch on even though she told me I should take it off until he's used to it and well.... He looked like that horse in the video for about half hour straight. I couldn't even stop him long enough to to get the saddle off or do anything, all I could do was helplessly stand there and make sure the lunge line stayed out from under him.
    07-17-2011, 06:53 PM
Sounds like you can start him in the round pen with a string around the flanks.... lunge him just don't be scared if he crow hops or bucks a bit, just keep him moving he'll learn that the string isn't some tiger or bear on his back trying to cripple him. Then you can move to a western saddle with properly fit back cinch

I'm sure if you ask around you my find someone close to help if you need but sounds like you got things under control.
    07-18-2011, 11:41 PM
A twisted nylon (team roping) rope works good for me. It will open up better when you give them slack. That's why I like this technique so well; if they get in a wreck you can throw the slack to 'em and it's over. We used to practice saddle bronc with a rope around the flank because you can practice by yourself and if you get unseated, just give them slack and they quit. You'd be surprised how many horses that are considered well broke will kick up. Anyway, I try to do it in a larger arena and keep them in the middle (away from the fence).
    07-18-2011, 11:59 PM
Lol people have been roping around the flank to get a horse tired for ever.... its not abusive. I tried it on a hackney once. The pony wasnt spooks, saddle fit it, would let you sit on her, but if you asked her to move would go into a dangerous bucking fit. ITS NOT ABUSIVE.
    07-19-2011, 09:39 PM
This video is a lie and video stolen off the internet.

Originally Posted by bobtwotracker    
Does this tactic of training qualify as natural horsemanship ? I think NOT ! This is one training video that really disturbed me.

YouTube - ‪Poor horse training‬‏
This video was taken at my house in my round pen. The person who created the video stole the video from the horse's owner's facebook page or off of YouTube and then proceeded to clip the video to make Toah Hatch look bad.
This is NOT a true representation of what happened that day and the person who made the video should be ashamed of themselves. They created a lie to try and make someone look bad out of spite.
Toah DID give the mare release and the mare responded very well to the training that day as well as all the other lessons.
I have also personally taken lessons from Toah and he is a very good instructor and very gentle and in tune with both horse and rider.
    07-20-2011, 12:13 AM
Thank you for some clarification I could tell from the video it was some weird editing job. I just hate to see people slandered, this video is the same style PETa or the ALF would do.

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