A new "how to." - Page 4
 
 

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A new "how to."

This is a discussion on A new "how to." within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        09-09-2010, 07:26 PM
      #31
    Started
    There was nothing wrong with the way Linda handled that particular horse and owner. The horse was pushy and dominant, and when he got on adrenaline became dangerous because he wanted to crowd and run over her. She had to match his energy and then ADD a little more in order to get noticed. Did the horse lose trust in her? No. Was it unfair? No. You do whatever it necessary to stay safe.
         
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        09-09-2010, 07:37 PM
      #32
    Banned
    I respectfully disagree. I never once saw that horse endanger her safety other than when it did what she asked it to do...walk behind her.

    And while I get the whole respect space thing...what he did was a minor infraction that was punished by over 10 minutes of leadrope flicking.

    I have said it before and I will say it again. If I were a horse, I would be more terrorized by having someone 'buzz my tower' with a leadrope than actually hitting me. I cannot see how the leadrope flicking really works...if you can call that flicking. I can't believe that in this day and age that it is acceptable, and daresay trendy, to be whipping a leadrope around aimed at purely INTIMIDATING a horse.

    I totally disagree with this video.
         
        09-09-2010, 07:41 PM
      #33
    Weanling
    In the beginning that horse didnt know they exsisted,was not looking to them at all, it changed by the end
         
        09-09-2010, 08:43 PM
      #34
    Green Broke
    Did you not hear the noise of bone and metal? And she did hit the horse with the whip as well..

    I don't agree with the video, it just looks like stupid people trying to train a horse without sucesse (sp?) There are much easier and more effective ways of getting the horse out of your space.
         
        09-09-2010, 09:03 PM
      #35
    Trained
    There are much better way of doing it.

    I also subscribe to the 3 second rule which they clearly have no concept of.

    You want the horse to make the mistake so you can correct it. However this MUST be done with in the first 3 second and the correction should last no longer then 3 seconds. Then ask them to do what ever it is you want. If they make a mistake you correct them again. Again which this was not.

    You make the wrong thing hard and the right thing easy. Again something that they where not doing. There is no need to hit a horse in the head at any point. With a snap or not.
         
        09-09-2010, 09:18 PM
      #36
    Banned
    One more thing and I promise Ill stop.

    Where does this stop? The horse obviously made attempts to do as they wished...even just a few moments in. No praise. How is he to know that he did the right thing when there is no release of pressure and no praise? After the first few tries by the owner and linda, he was trying...scrambling even for the answer.

    Heres how I saw it

    Owner flicks rope
    Horse Freezes
    Owner continues to flick rope
    Horse moves backwards
    Owner continues to flick rope
    Horse puts head in the air
    Owner keeps flicking
    Linda steps in
    Flicks rope with intention
    Horse backs up faster
    Linda flicks HARDER
    Horse has head in the air, stepping sideways, searching for the right answer
    Linda flicks Harder yet
    Horse runs past her and gets flicked again.

    Where was the pressure/release in any of this?

    In the end, the horse looks more confused. I doubt he ever did find the 'answer' to what they were asking.
         
        09-10-2010, 12:00 AM
      #37
    Super Moderator
    LP disciplining horse?

    I would first of all, before I did anything, take the metal clip off the leadline. Done! Now, it is useable to send a message and a strong one without inflicting PAIN. No need for that in most cases.

    I do not think she is abusing the horse. It doesn't matter how far off from her body she decides the horse should be walking, as long as she is consistant about it. It's the horse's responsibility to maintain the correct distance, and the lead mare gets to decide what that distance is. She is the lead mare and her word is GOD. She will be amazingly severe if necessary . . ONCE. After that, usually only a pinned ear is necessary becuase the message got through the first time.
    SO, we need to be as hard as it takes. However, what bothered me was that she did not give a warning before the shake of the rope. She needs to decide what the signal is, a wagged finger, a waved elbow, a hissing sound, whatever the horse can percieve, then back it up with pressure, enough to make the horse react and remember.
    What I see Linda doing is that she isn't giving a warning, and she isn't giving that young horse much of an a release when he does comply AND he has almost no SAFE Zone. Because she chastised him, he backed off, hit the end of the rope then she immediately started forward, he followed (as he has been taught to do and she practically immediately told him to back off again. ) He had about a 5 inch safe zone in there. Be real! He needs to have a larger area where there is no pressure to either stop or move off. Also, when she suddenly stopped or changed directions, she did it SO abruptly that the horse had no body language to read. She just stopped. She needs to lean her upper body back a little, then stop. That horse, if he's paying attentio will see the tiny shift in her body and know he has one second to respond in the safe zone, then he gets pressure. She doesn't give him a chance to think or prepare. He has no idea whats coming. Even the lead mare will pin her ears before biting or kicking.

    As far as flining the rope up in the horse's face, shouldn't need to happen more than a few times, AFTER the warning . In and of itself, using such movements correctly are NOT cruel in my opinion.
         
        09-10-2010, 12:51 AM
      #38
    Weanling
    In leading that horse around all she had to do was pick up the lead rope and actually LEAD her horse CORRECTLY. If she held the rope just that little bit shorter she would have had more control. Then when the horse trotted up behind her, she would have been able to just give a simple tug back on it to get him to halt.
    I laughed at the horse around the 9:04 mark where she was waving the rope around like a crazy and all the horse is doing is sniffing the ground and ignoring her
         
        09-10-2010, 01:00 AM
      #39
    Super Moderator
    That is the critical word; Ignoring her. I didn't stay with the video long enough to see that part but I can tell you when my horse is on a lead, he is "working", Not grazing or going off elsewhere. I don't mean that he can't look at his surroundings, but he cannot blow me off if I ask for his attention. He cannot go off to graze while I open and close the gate. He cannot go off to sniff other horses., He WILL try , he will think about that, and that's when I REMIND him that I am still there. If he ignores a polite reminder such as voice or a tiny wiggle of the rope, then the reminder gets big enough to get his mind back to ME.
    When he is off line in his pasture or along in a paddock eating, I do NOT expect him to pay attention to me and I stay out of his face.

    That is one reason I do not support hand grazing, though I realize that sometimes there is not choice if you want to give your horse some fresh green grass. It is a muddy middle ground; he is being "lead" and should be respecting your directions, but at the same time his mind is on grazing; a singularly pleasurable activity for horses and he will naturally want to "roam" looking for the tastiest bites. He will not have his human first in mind. And he doesn't have the freedom to just eat fully as a horse. However, like I said, sometimes it's better than never letting him get the joy of grazing, as many urband horse so rarely do.

    I really believe the the physical action of grazing, the tearing of the grass and the small motions of the neck , pull. Pull. Pull and the delicate movements of lips discerning the tasty green bits from the manure spoiled stuff . .. . This is mesmerizingly pleasureable for horses and is not equalled by eating hay from a feeder or even from the floor. The action is not the same.
    What do you think?
    My space, his space.
         
        09-10-2010, 01:05 AM
      #40
    Trained
    I do not allow hand grazing for several reasons. One is that when I lead them I do not want them to keep trying to graze. Next and most important. I do not want them eating grass at shows or trying to. They do not eat anything off the ground at a horse show. So it is just easier to say no all the time.
         

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