New To The Whole Idea...

But I don't want to be just 'part of the herd' equiniphile, I expect the horses to treat me as the alpha mare.

In other words, it's okay to like me, but first and foremost you'd better respect me and my authority.

Perhaps I should have explained myself better......we had a John Lyons-style trainer out to work with our kicker/biter last summer. He spent 45 minutes becoming part of the herd, and then another 30 minutes becoming the lead mare. He told us to become part of the herd every day, and then let him respect you by doing a head bowing thing, taking up a total of about 30 minutes a day. I have every confidence that that guy would have started any horse like that. So if you have 30, 40 horses on your ranch, who's going to sit and become part of and leader of the herd every day, 30 minutes to a horse, 30 horses? That'll take 15 hours a day!
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30 horses is a lot to train in one day no matter what philosophy you subscribe to! Especially if you have 30 kicking/biting ones..

Ah, I really hate all those marketing items. I really do! And note, I'm not saying I like or dislike either type of training style, but I just cannot stand when you are spewed that crap "You NEED to buy this. You will never be able to train your horse without this one lead rope. This is quite possibly the greatest thing you will ever buy for your horse". Because when I was first getting into horses I was having a bit of trouble, and whenever I looked on the internet at Clinton Anderson's site or something trying to find help, all it told me was I had to buy this rope halter, buy this lead rope etc etc, and I was like...what? I really need to buy this? I didn't have money for that kind of stuff and I'm not ordering ANYTHING over the internet. So yeah, I was scared that I wouldn't be able to have a well-trained horse (I know I was stupid, I was very inexperienced =P). Now, when I see those "!!!Buy this halter and it will make all your problems go away!!" ads, I laugh.

I agree 150%. I started watching CA on RFDTV fairly early on, before all the marketing hoopla started. His show used to be just training; if he described equipment, it was along the lines of "Use a snaffle, we sell 'em, mate." Now, it's "You need a Clinton Anderson Signature snaffle bridle rig, mate." The whole "NH Industry" is like a gymkhana pie race - race up, face down through the fluff, find the gummie good stuff, and race back.

Good horsemanship is good horsemanship, no matter who's logo is on the gear, or whether there's a logo or not. I'm certainly not a pro trainer, but I've solved about every problem my boys have pitched at me with the help of one BNT's work or another (perhaps with my own spin on it), and a no-name saddle, no-name bridle, $5 rope halter, and homemade long line.

Yep to this, and the post it was written in response to.

It used to be that successful riders and trainers simply endorsed already-existing brand names and products. Of course, many still do.

Not to say that the NH world is any kind of exception when it comes to individual trainers coming out with their own "lines" of training/riding equipment. There are trainers in a variety of disciplines and breeds who have done the same thing, and they all have their die-hard followers who will buy the product at a ridiculously-high price just because it has the trainer's name on it.

But still. . .the NH world seems much more "full of it" when it comes to the stuff sold by individual trainers.

Well luckily I won't have to be buying anything. The Parelli book was given to me to read. And my employer will be training me with the horses. So that's the good news then.

I took this from Wikipedia:

"Natural horsemanship is the philosophy of working with horses by appealing to their instincts and herd mentality. It involves communication techniques derived from wild horse observation in order to build a partnership that closely resembles the relationships that exist between horses."

For me, there is quite a difference between the two. I was taught the "traditional method" and am now learning the so called "natural method". I simply love what I am learning and passing onto my horses. I'll use the example of how I use to load a horse into a trailer: Please note: This does not apply to ALL people and their horses who choose to teach traditional methods.

Traditionally if a horse wouldn't load we would wrap a long line around his butt, get a bunch of people around him, hit him with a whip, ect. Eventually we got the horse in, but it was always a commotion and anxiety provoking when going to or from a show. NH goes through steps to help alleviate the fear of small confined spaces by giving the horse confidence. It is beautiful to watch a horse load on their own. If you youtube trailer loading w/ Parelli you'll see what I mean.

Some think reading horses is common sense but it never came that easy for me. I needed a step by step program that 1. Showed me what to look for and 2. Start to figure out what to do with what I am reading. What am I suppose to do when my horse decides to spook and go off the deep end? I use to put a shank on and be really tough. Now I know to try and get that horse to stop reacting and think. Back him up, go sideways, do a circle, then reverse, or maybe I need to get really big to calm him down. I use to blame my horse for everything! Now I know my horse is NEVER the one to blame. Ever. And that has made all the difference.

OP: Read "Soul of a Horse" by Joe Camp. It is a great, inspiring story of a man discovering natural horsemanship for the first time.

I'm pretty flexible on the whole marketing of natural horsemanship items. But when you compare Clinton Anderson and Pat Parelli's equipment, the only big difference is the color of the stick. Does one work better than the other? No.

I find it pretty ridiculous that the Parelli's are selling their own saddle line now. I read a description on them about how these saddles are better than all saddles ever made. So what, people have been making "incorrect" saddles for hundreds of years, but the Parelli's create the superior saddle in only a handful of years? Oh, and they cost a couple of thousand dollars each. I think I'll stick with my lowly Wintecs.

The whole traditional/natural thing is a ploy too to appeal to the people that have seen too many westerns where the horse is blindfolded, the saddle strapped on, and it gets rode until it gives up. That is NOT traditional horsemanship. That is really crappy horsemanship. IMHO, traditional horsemanship means that you just get the job done and don't screw around with fluffy feelings and 'lets be friends'.

You must be talking about the english saddles. LOL. Their ranch roper is almost $6000. Then you have to spend an additional $400+ on the saddle pad to go with it and another $40 for each 'shim' to make sure the saddle fits your horse LOL. I could get 3 handmade saddles for less than that that would be guaranteed to fit both my horse and me. Plus another thing that most western riders (especially ropers) would understand. There is a reason why roping saddles are so heavy. Because the bars, fork, cantle, horn, leather, rigging, etc is all sturdy enough to withstand a lot of torque and pressure without changing it's shape. Rope a 1000 pound cow with a saddle whos bars are flexible? Yeah, that would be comfortable for the horse when the entire shape of the saddle literally gets bent out of whack.