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Now THIS is what I want to see.

This is a discussion on Now THIS is what I want to see. within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        12-01-2009, 09:51 PM
      #31
    Weanling
    Gorgeous!!
         
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        12-01-2009, 10:08 PM
      #32
    Weanling
    Yes it has been done for reining, but I have NEVER seen it in Dressasge especially not with the horse that happy.
    But also note that the horse in that video that you posted , nrhareiner, there are many times the horse tosses his tail which is a sign of uphappiness, too strong of cues, or protest.

    The dressage video: 7 swishes...normally at lead changes which could mean that she's asking a bit too hard
    Reining: I see 10+ swishes in a video that was technically only half the length of the other, THEN when the girl got off to grab the gun I saw a horse with no trust in his rider as he ran behind her

    Quote:
    Why is it that some people can't accept that training like that has been going on long before Parelli?
    Yes it has gone long before Parelli, but the dressage rider had a happier horse ;) and a happy horse is what is important to me and should be for everyone
         
        12-01-2009, 10:11 PM
      #33
    Weanling
    For example:

    I would not classify that at all as a "Happy" horse. The look, expression and the way he moves tells me that he is still being forced. And look how loud the rider's legs are being and using her leg way too much. Now compare to the first video....
         
        12-01-2009, 11:22 PM
      #34
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SavvyHearts    
    Yes it has been done for reining, but I have NEVER seen it in Dressasge especially not with the horse that happy.
    But also note that the horse in that video that you posted , nrhareiner, there are many times the horse tosses his tail which is a sign of uphappiness, too strong of cues, or protest.

    The dressage video: 7 swishes...normally at lead changes which could mean that she's asking a bit too hard
    Reining: I see 10+ swishes in a video that was technically only half the length of the other, THEN when the girl got off to grab the gun I saw a horse with no trust in his rider as he ran behind her


    Yes it has gone long before Parelli, but the dressage rider had a happier horse ;) and a happy horse is what is important to me and should be for everyone
    Put that dressage horse in front of about 20K+ people with all the noise and everything and then shoot off a shot gun in an enclosed area and see how he reacts. The tail is normal in just about any discipline. Even my horses swish their tails. Dose not mean they are not enjoying what they are doing. Each and every one of my horses love their jobs and are more then willing to do it. Trail swishing especially in lead changes has little to do with the horse being happy or not.

    As for the horse not trusting her. I can not say. I will say that the way that horse acted at the end is typical of that bloodline. Has little to do with trust.
         
        12-01-2009, 11:22 PM
      #35
    Super Moderator
    You are wrong when you say a horse swishes its tail only out of anger or pain. You are simply wrong. They do it out of sympathetic muscle movement. It is usually as a result of really applying itself. Cranking the tail is different. That's when the tail does full circles and THAT is usually showing anger. The video you posted showed a horse with very soft ears. They would be rigid if he was unhappy or "forced". Horse body language is very important to understand. I've spent years specializing in working with rank and "ruined" horses. I have really had to hone my body language skills to be successful doing that.
         
        12-02-2009, 12:34 AM
      #36
    Green Broke
    I have to agree. The horse in that video was pretty relaxed. Maybe tense here and there but that's going to happen.

    The can cranking or going in circle is like extreme frusteration/anger and things are about to go wrong.. and usually pretty fast lol. BUT horses that are in a "NO" type of mood will do single/fast swishes here and there when asked of something. Chance will do this if I ask for the canter and in her head she's not ready yet. Its a negitive response but doesnt mean Im forcing or she's really unhappy.. she's just not in the mood. You know? I think the horse as just responding to the riders leg. Not much else.
    When you reading the horses you going to read the whole body. The horse was also blowing out a lot and lowering the head which is relaxation.

    Notice it says bitless as well so theres not much force there and the riders hands seem to be pretty giving.
         
        12-02-2009, 09:00 AM
      #37
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RiosDad    
    You usually master everything in a bridle and then drop to the halter.
    But again he kept his spurs.
    Ooops, I've been doing it wrong all these years...
         
        12-02-2009, 09:59 AM
      #38
    Weanling
    Quote:
    You usually master everything in a bridle and then drop to the halter.
    But again he kept his spurs.
    Wanted to comment on this first
    I will not master everything in a bridle, I master everything in a natural hackamore and then when everything is good to go up to a bridle to perfect it.
    And I never use spurs, all my horses are sensitive enough where I don't need spurs at all


    Oh I'm not saying that the horse was unhappy with what the rider was asking, IMO I'd be upset about how loud that rider was on the horse. The legs kept moving and her body was moving also, that in itself would upset and confuse all my horses, and would upset me also if I had someone moving that much on my back

    And do note that just because it's bitless-bridle does not mean it's not something that can't be use as a torture. They make their Bitless-bridles to give you as much control as you would with a bit....but hmmmm how do they do that...they have to add something to make the horse actually turn with you instead of putting pressure against it and pulling the other way ;)
         
        12-02-2009, 09:34 PM
      #39
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HorsesAreForever    
    Who said I was referring to Parelli....
    I wouldnt care if it was CA... or someone else. It was a nice example of what can be accomplished in a halter..

    I think it will help open up a lot of peoples minds .... maybe??? That things can be done without a bit... and a horse can be happy doing there job and be a great riding partner. And im not saying horses that are ridden traditional arent Happy...

    Im glad a lot of people who replied enjoyed it though!! :) Something to work towards!
    AND that dressage horses only achieve their "frame" by being "cranked in" with severe hands, harsh double bridles and spurs. I get really tired of that claim by non dressage people. That horse, clearly, dispels that opinion.
         
        12-02-2009, 11:21 PM
      #40
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Allison Finch    
    AND that dressage horses only achieve their "frame" by being "cranked in" with severe hands, harsh double bridles and spurs. I get really tired of that claim by non dressage people. That horse, clearly, dispels that opinion.
    My question to that would be if you take the reins off the halter would he still carry that frame??
         

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