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post #11 of 44 Old 12-08-2013, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by farmpony84 View Post
The most important thing w/ all these trainers is that you don't drink the kool aide.

One of the reasons I'm not a big fan is because they've basically take traditional training methods and added their own little spin and given them and name and commercialized. The fans and followers tend to behave like brainwashed cult members. (not all but many)....

I have actually seen things that were done buy Linda Parelli (badly - she doesn't have the grasp her husband has) and been able to actually learn from her. Seeing her over exaggerate methods and stumble through them somehow has gotten the point across to me and I've been able to take away from it.

The thing about these trainers is that you take what you can and you leave the rest and know that they will never replace a physical in your presence trainer...

Problem is alot of newbie horse owners get reeled into doing this "natural" horsemanship & fumble along following the videos spending money on gimmicks.They get messing with these games,not knowing how to read a horse & horse gets the better of them. Many these horses are spoiled,lack respect of space & they are the ones training their owners...
The money & time they spent could have been more wisely used for both them & their horse by getting lessons or sending horse out to a professional.
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post #12 of 44 Old 12-08-2013, 09:13 PM
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if you decide to do it, I would suggest getting a good instructor. I know that you've mentioned your horse having some behaviors that trouble you , what with pinning his ears and swishing his tail out of irritation.
If you do the kind of work that they teach in Parelli, and don't do it really well, then you may end up exsaserbating that behavior, becuase you'll be "picking" on him with the stick and a wiggle of the line, and he may be picking back at you with just the same amount of nag nag, and you'll make that relationship of "I nag at you and you snipe back at me and we get frustrated and then we quit" even more gelled.

so, you have to affect a CHANGE, and you might need an instructor to help you keep focussed on making a change in the horse's behavior, verses you trying to do this or that game. never lose sight of the HORSE.
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post #13 of 44 Old 02-07-2014, 02:47 PM
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There seem to be a lot of non Parelli fans here. I really like Parelli. I got into horses at 52 and am a pilot. I like Parelli because it is a program that you progress through step by step. Parelli really is about training people rather than horses. They have only started marketing it as horse training in the past couple of years. If you are going to do Parelli you need to actually do it. Invest in the training materials and find a certified Parelli instructor to get you started. A lot of people who don't like Parelli don't really know anything about the program. As for the Catwalk video that some use as a negative sometimes extreme horses call for extreme measures. He probably should not have done that in front of an audience that didn't understand what was going on, but in the end the horse was helped and that is what is important.
Even Parelli says there are a lot of good programs out there. Pick one and use. Other you wind up with kind of a peanut butter pickle burrito. All good things but not together.
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post #14 of 44 Old 02-07-2014, 11:08 PM
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I think for beginners or people that have a horse that is lacking in ground manners, Parelli can do great things, but when you get more advanced their program just falls short in my opinion. I used their method for a couple years, got as much out of it as I could and now I'm on to something different.
I found that once you hit a certain point, though you have a great relationship with your horse and a respectful horse, your riding skills as well as your horses just deteriorates.

If you are to start, find a "play day" in your area. The Parelli instructors are good but charge way too much especially the higher of "star" rating they have.
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post #15 of 44 Old 02-08-2014, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by howrsegirl123 View Post
I've heard lots on how the Parelli methods are no good, but I want to know exactly how. What do they do that's wrong? Why are they disliked so much? (I am not trying to stand up for them, I really have no clue about any of this and I'm just curious.)
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That could take some time. You can do a search on here and get loads of information and examples. There's not shortage of threads addressing PP and LP.
But, just to give you a relatively short answer (i.e. it won't be short or nearly all inclusive).
PP preaches/teaches that his methods work with all horses (I have some dear friends who are huge fans, have hosted him and had me watch some of his training DVD's). Even when watching the DVD there was a case where a horse did not respond well to his technique for teaching a horse to back up and LP made the matter worse by doing (of course) what they preach which is to do it more vigorously, which made the situation even worse. That horse and owner where not in the following portion of the video since it was a "problem horse" that needed to be worked with more.
Actually my older mare was the same way when my friend was going to show me how to train her to backup using the PP way. She wasn't happy about it at first and behaved worse as it was continued. I stopped it. Took the halter off, spent 10 minutes with her to calm her down and took less than 5 minutes to get her to back up a couple of steps with no halter or lead. Just my hands and voice. In 10 minutes she was backing up all the way across the paddock with just a hand motion and voice command. She didn't get nervous and behaved very nicely, but was nervous and agitated when the PP method was used.

Of course there are cases where he's messed up in front of audiences. In one case with another "difficult" horse he couldn't get it to accept the bridle. Ended up putting a line under the lip and another under the leg in an effort to force compliance. Failed all around, but did manage to injure the horses gum sufficiently that the vet on hand restricted that horse from being used in the next days demonstration.
Of course it was the horse's fault and people who didn't think he was still wonderful just "didn't understand what they were seeing" and didn't understand the situation . It's almost to funny to be sad, since many of use were working with horses before Pat and are very much aware of what we are seeing.

Bottom line is that there is NO technique, system or whatever you want to call it that works with all horses. Any of these trainers that tells you they have one is full of it. Just like people, every horse is an individual. Something that worked with one might not work with another so they better have more than one way of doing things available. The only thing that is always true is the correct philosophy about training, but that can't be marketed. You can't claim ownership of that.

People who are "in love" with PP are the ones who might have had some success with what he sells, bought into the hype and have never seen or are unaware of the utter failures and don't know any better.

Being a truly great horse person is not about following or developing a series of "canned" techniques or system. It's about a philosophy that allows you to take each horse as an individual, understand what will work for that horse, teach it in the manner that works for that horse. If what you're doing isn't working, then you do something else. Success isn't about making the horse learn your way. It's teaching the horse to do what you want using a method that works for that horse.

They're always going to be bigger and stronger so you better always be smarter. (One of my grandfather's many pearls of wisdom)
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post #16 of 44 Old 02-08-2014, 04:53 AM
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Im on the fence. I find it gimmicky but it has its place. I know a mare who was trained using his methods and her owner would NOT ever discipline her. I was standing at the hitching post and she was trying to push me and mug me for food. I gently pushed her and told her no. She pinned her ears and snapped at me, earning her a good whack on the nose. You'd think i just told Mommies lil princess she could not have that dollie and if she did not stop crying she was getting a time out. This horse was pissed. We went back and forth for 10 min until I had to go and do better things with my time.
This is just one example, but i have known 2 others with similar issues. Is he or clinton anderson a good platform for beginners? Yeah, would I use his/thier methods? No (well I do use some of CAs stuff).
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post #17 of 44 Old 02-08-2014, 07:38 AM
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I practiced Parelli steadily with my current horse for the first several years I had him. I was a member of the Savvy Club, went to as many events as I could and bought all the levels. I don't regret it.

Honestly, I think there are so many Parelli haters out there because there is so much Parelli out there. Most trainers don't have the following or publicity the Parellis do. And at some point, every horse trainer is going to fail or mess up. Like lbs/miles said, no method will work perfectly with every horse. I worry that Parelli inspires a mindset that you can only use Parelli tactics when using any Parelli methods at all with your horse.
They have a lot of good foundation going, and I love the focus they put on relationship before showmanship. I appreciate his emphasis on moving the horse's feet instead of slapping the horse with your hand or crop. Can you find these concepts with other trainers? Yes.

I really like Parelli groundwork as a base. I do think there is a point (I hit it after about four years) where you move on and are ready to explore other trainers and methods. However, if you wind up with a newbie matched with a very dominant horse, you are going to have problems. You'd have these problems with any newbie/dominant horse combination, but Parelli reveals them more vividly because almost you immediately start exercises that demand respect. This brings out the challenge in a lot of horses and a new horse person might not see warnings before the behavior escalates to a charge or severe bite.

No method of horsemanship should be started by a new horseperson on their own. Everyone needs that more experienced horseperson there, in person, watching them to help them along, and that is where I feel Parelli has marketed itself wrong. A take-home program doesn't mean take it home and try it on the horse you bought yesterday when you only horse experience so far has been watching The Black Stallion. With any method, that is a bad idea.

Parelli has some faults but it has some great wisdom too, you just have to look past the flash and gimmicks to the genuine horsemanship and psychology behind it.
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post #18 of 44 Old 02-08-2014, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by DiamondJumper View Post
...No method of horsemanship should be started by a new horseperson on their own. Everyone needs that more experienced horseperson there, in person, watching them to help them along, and that is where I feel Parelli has marketed itself wrong. A take-home program doesn't mean take it home and try it on the horse you bought yesterday when you only horse experience so far has been watching The Black Stallion. With any method, that is a bad idea...

Sometimes the correct answer is "Get a well-trained horse, spend an extra $1000 on him if need be, and ride for a few years. After 3-5 years of riding, you can consider training a horse". When I use 'training' like that, I mean a program of training. I think it is entirely possible to learn to 'train' a horse to stand still while mounting, or to pick its feet up for cleaning, or to improve it flexibility or get better at stopping from Internet discussions and videos.

I think too many new owners buy a horse that is cheap (for a reason) and then try to use the Internet and DVDs as a substitute for the systematic training a pro can give but that their horse lacks (because they did not pay for it). As a newbie, I undoubtedly bought a horrible horse for a new owner, but I at least had enough sense to turn to a local pro when I was overwhelmed.

Tweaking a horse's training to up its performance is one thing. Filling in a major hole or many major holes is another. Parelli is marketed as a means of doing the latter, and it won't get that job done for a new owner.

I also dislike the word 'games' being applied to training. The horse I bought as a new owner needed what she got in the picture below, but she did not consider it fun and it was not a bonding game. It also wasn't something a new owner had any business trying after reading a paragraph on the Internet:

"Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing...well, ignore it mostly."
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post #19 of 44 Old 02-08-2014, 12:12 PM
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When PP blew it with the bridling, he later stated it had gone well away from the crowd and that he should have stopped instead of proceeding. He's on a timeline at those venues because if he runs late, everyone is on overtime pay. This can put a tremendous amount of pressure on anyone. As for LP's blunder, it appears her ego got in the way. Sometimes this happens and hopefully it turns into a lesson not to be repeated. By referring various maneuvers as games is more about the handlers attitude. Let's enjoy this, not have temper tantrums or feel frustrated.
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post #20 of 44 Old 02-08-2014, 12:54 PM
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Here is a picture from a Parelli advertisement (MHC Prince George's County: Parelli Tour coming to THE SHOWPLACE ARENA, Upper Marlboro MD), meant to attract others:

To each their own...but if it were my horse, a carrot stick colonoscopy would be added to the schedule as the next event!
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"Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing...well, ignore it mostly."
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