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Parelli?

This is a discussion on Parelli? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        02-08-2014, 07:32 PM
      #21
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howrsegirl123    
    I've heard lots on how the Parelli methods are no good, but I want to know exactly how. What do they do that's wrong? Why are they disliked so much? (I am not trying to stand up for them, I really have no clue about any of this and I'm just curious.)
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Too hot to do anything else today so I'll spend some more time here... Haven't read replies, so I may repeat & I'm also sure you've got a variety of different answers, probably many negative ones... I'll just give my take...

    I got into Parelli when I started getting interested in horse training over 20 years ago. I found the principles and most of the 'games' to be rather common sense - well, once they were pointed out - and got into it rather fanatically at first. One of his priniciples I agree thoroughly with is not to follow a set of rules 'just because' but to think for yourself & learn when to be, how to be... in any given situation, and to learn from many sources, not just Parelli. So.... I've been 'off the bandwagon' for well over 15 years now, but still have a lot of respect for most of the *basic principles*.

    What's wrong with 'PNH' & why do many hate it & 'natural horsemanship'? I think it's mostly to do with perception & experiencing *apparently* 'Parelli' people & horses 2nd & 3rd hand(Mind you, some 1st hand experiences with Parelli instructors & high level 'students' have put me off...). I think it also has a lot to do with people's common approach to embrace something like this fanatically, want to follow a blind faith 'recipe' approach & be unwilling/able to actually analyse what & why they do certain things. Be it Parelli or otherwise, people tend to only want to learn from one source, with easy to follow 'rules' and feel the need of particular 'tools' & tactics just because 'the Guru' uses them.

    Of course, there are also legitimately good & bad bits for different people in any method or trainer's teaching, be that to do with principles, techniques, or the trainer's personality & marketing ability - both of the last 2 big ones with Parelli. I don't personally begrudge his making money off people, because if *they want to believe* they need all that equipment & they can afford to buy it, good for Parelli.

    I don't know whether he still bothers with this approach, but remember seeing him about 20 years ago & before a break, I was impressed that he gave a really strong lecture on equipment & why while he personally liked certain types, horsemanship is not about the equipment & buying his stuff was neither necessary or helpful of itself. I was amused to see that right after that, there was still a huge rush on the merchandise stall, with people commenting about how they will now be able to 'do Parelli' because they couldn't without the correctly weighted(or whatever) ropes...

    Now I must admit, while I still have lots of respect for the basic principles he taught to begin with, these days, I'm disappointed, surprised & sometimes actually horrified by what I've seen them(yes, personally, him or that Linda person) do or say. Occasionally I've 'checked in' in recent years & have found some interesting new stuff, but on the whole, IMPO, seems to be getting crankier as it goes along...
         
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        02-08-2014, 08:19 PM
      #22
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sarahfromsc    
    The pricing of the carrot stick....and 45-65 bucks for a rope halter? Really? I can buy a piece of nylon rope and tie it myself and be able to still take the family out to dinner.
    Absolutely, so make yourself one. But I don't have a problem with them charging that much - after all, wouldn't you, if you knew there were sillies that would pay that much happily??
    Chasin Ponies likes this.
         
        02-08-2014, 08:50 PM
      #23
    Showing
    I don't have a problem with the poster. He does advertise for difficult horses. By the end of the show you'll see a different much calmer horse.
         
        02-08-2014, 09:49 PM
      #24
    Trained
    Quote:
    I have actually seen things that were done buy Linda Parelli (badly - she doesn't have the grasp her husband has) and been able to actually learn from her. Seeing her over exaggerate methods and stumble through them somehow has gotten the point across to me and I've been able to take away from it.
    So that's what people are on about who say she's a fantastic teacher!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by its lbs not miles    
    Bottom line is that there is NO technique, system or whatever you want to call it that works with all horses. ...The only thing that is always true is the correct philosophy about training, but that can't be marketed. You can't claim ownership of that.
    Interesting & I wonder how much of this is people's perception, rather than what he actually teaches - I am aware so much has changed since I was a 'fan'. Just that with his original stuff, it was indeed all about principles, and the actual methods(in my perception of his teaching), were indeed not *supposed to be* hard & fast, but were adapted to what the horse in question was like/ready for at that time. Also re 'ownership' of techniques, while no one can dispute the huge marketing machine of Parelli, he also used to give implicit credit to his teachers & emphasise that he never invented the ideas, just learned & was excited by them & wanted to share.
         
        02-08-2014, 10:27 PM
      #25
    Trained
    Carrot stick colonoscopy... hihihi, there are a few who could only improve with that 'treatment' & none of them 4 legged!
         
        02-08-2014, 10:33 PM
      #26
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DiamondJumper    
    No method of horsemanship should be started by a new horseperson on their own. Everyone needs that more experienced horseperson there, in person, watching them to help them along, and that is where I feel Parelli has marketed itself wrong. A take-home program doesn't mean take it home and try it on the horse you bought yesterday when you only horse experience so far has been watching The Black Stallion. With any method, that is a bad idea.
    Agree wholeheartedly, but did they actually market it as such, or is it just the way it's been taken by so many? Again, speaking only from 20yo lessons, but they used to say use the 'packs' to fill in between lessons, that you CAN manage just with books & vids, but best not to if you can get first hand help. & if we're speaking of principles, I think it's(was, at least) more about educating the PERSON more than the horse. And of course, there are also those, as in the hoof care 'boat', that cannot find good help within cooee, so therefore a 'do it yourself' package is the only option.
         
        02-09-2014, 12:26 AM
      #27
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
    When PP blew it with the bridling, he later stated it had gone well away from the crowd and that he should have stopped instead of proceeding. He's on a timeline at those venues because if he runs late, everyone is on overtime pay. This can put a tremendous amount of pressure on anyone. As for LP's blunder, it appears her ego got in the way. Sometimes this happens and hopefully it turns into a lesson not to be repeated. By referring various maneuvers as games is more about the handlers attitude. Let's enjoy this, not have temper tantrums or feel frustrated.
    Actually, what PP said was quite different. He will never admit to being wrong. His system and what he does is ALWAYS right according to him.

    "I can assure you that Parelli philosopy and methods never tolerate abuse of any kind and nobody works harder than I do to make the world a better place for horses. (I guess it depends on what someone would classify as abuse )
    First and foremost, I would like to apologize to the audience members that were confused by the demonstration methods that in the moment I chose to use on a horse that proved more diffcult (sic) than anyone ever expected. In hindsight, I realize that when the microphone fell off, I should have stopped the demonstration and talked to you about it. Some people had diffculty (sic) trusting me in this situation and for that I am sad and apologize for allowing confusion to evolve.
    (there's nothing confusing about it if you've worked with horses, but he loves to make out like if you disagree with him then you obviously don't understand horses and we're just "confused" )
    In over 30 years of public problem-solving, this is without a doubt the most extreme horse I have ever had. In fact he ranks in the top 3 of all challenging horses in my experience. When dealing with any problematic situation Iím there first for the horse and taking care of what he needs. It became apparent that bridling and ear handling has been a very perplexing issue for Catwalk long before he came to his new owners, I had to prove to him that he did not need to fear it. (how does making the horse more frightened to that?) You have to be able to match the energy, not do more or less than the horse, and that takes passive persistence. You cannot rush or force it or youíll push the horse over the edge. You just have to prove to him that no matter how long it takes, you would never go there. Thatís when they finally trust you and some horses take longer than others. (Ok, that's insulting . Let's see...a gum line, rope looped under the leg and attached to the halter, and this is "not do more than the horse"? It certainly isn't "passive persistence" and it did push the horse over the edge) Catwalk surprised me because there were several times he gave me signs that he was changing, and then suddenly he would try another tactic."
    This is one of PP/LP problems. It's never something they did wrong. It's always the horse. Anyone who says that what they did was wrong, unnecessary or could have been done a better way just don't know what they are talking about, because PP is a "legend in his own lunch time" (as my British ex-wife says). If his way doesn't work with a horse then it's a difficult horse, because his way of dealing with horses is always the best.
    It's a canned system which actually states that if doing it easily doesn't work then you need to do it more vigorously. Well, that often doesn't work and too often leads to situations the push horses "over the edge" (but again, we have to remember that according to PP, those are difficult horses). Even though using often an even easier technique works wonderfully with these same "difficult" horses.
    loosie and Chasin Ponies like this.
         
        02-09-2014, 12:56 AM
      #28
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by its lbs not miles    
    ...which actually states that if doing it easily doesn't work then you need to do it more vigorously.
    Oh, but it's not forcing, it's 'promising'!! Always had a problem with that one...
         
        02-09-2014, 01:07 AM
      #29
    Started
    I just can't get past the lead rope wagging/jerking. Makes me want to grab the rope away and whap the person with it!
    Chasin Ponies likes this.
         
        02-09-2014, 01:08 AM
      #30
    Trained
    For the sake of continuity, another reason people don't like the machine... Thoughts on this? Linda Parelli and the blind horse.
         

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