Parelli Level 4 Finesse.. what do you see???

Yes, I am sure ;)

Simply find out from PP materials/call or write to them if you can't find the subject in the materials. Re: "contact" rein diminishing horses' mouths, the proof of the veracity of the statement is given only by the horse itself! The only way one is going to know anything for sure is to listen to & learn from the horse! Tom Dorrance said that everything he learned, he learned from the horse! You might ask why I post, then: I post in the hope that people will check out a subject of horsemanship with their horses, because they care enough about them to want to be 100% sure that they're doing the right thing with them.

I'm sorry, I still do not understand at all why you think that a horse being on contact diminishes the horse's mouth...? In English disciplines, the horse is expected to accept and actually seek the rider's contact - it is considered correct. We are not punishing our horses, we do listen to our horses. I am wondering if YOU yourself have resources that prove that a horse being on contact is detrimental?

I can only ask you to re-read my post - the horse will show you if you listen - plus repeat what I said in prior post that what passes as "contact" is so often in fact interference with the horse's movement & energy, rollkur being an extreme & therefore obvious example of that. I didn't say, nor am I of the opinion, that there's no place for proper in-hand riding! Why are you telling me that you do listen to your horse? Saying it proves nothing! Rather than telling me you love your horse, see to it that he knows it!

Deal! I will go with that.

When I add leg to my horse the first thing he does is reach for the bit. Looking for contact. Even if my reins are long.

So, I am listening. He has told me. Pushes from behind, rounds his back and looks for contact.

I am oh-so-very confused with your posts, Northern.... I have no idea what we're talking about. Rollkur is not correct contact. I'm not talking about extreme contact, as that is not correct. Correct contact is in no way detrimental to the horse, nor does it hinder movement whatsoever.
The reason I said something about my horse is that you asked it of me...

I thought it was a cute horse and not a bad ride. Not overly impressive but it was pleasent to watch. That horse has a lot more training then just natural horsemanship. If you look closely he's actually got some spur training going on. I see nothing wrong with mixing training techniques which is what this rider is doing.

Even though she is riding with contact, he looks like he has been trained more western than english. Some of how he moves reminds me of WP training.

thank you!

I'm quoting this again, because smrobs had an excellent point in saying this -- Northern, this is what we're getting at.