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Parelli Natural Horsemanship.

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        10-14-2013, 01:39 PM
      #41
    Trained
    That's really cool!

    What kind of demos did you see?
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        10-14-2013, 05:01 PM
      #42
    Yearling
    I was there the first day. I am friends with the lady that owns Zena the Zebra she is a reputable vet in our area also. The way I had read it the first time is that you were riding in it. I went back and reread after I had posted that question. The first day they did trailer loading, colt starting(beautiful grulla), and rider biomechanics(basically inadvertently using your weight to direct your horse but also with the way you look. So no rein contact unless absolutely necessary). Pat was very funny making jokes the whole time. I went with some friends of mine who were going just because I like to watch all sorts of people train. I can't really remember what the schedule said they were going to do the second day.
    Godgirl likes this.
         
        10-14-2013, 08:46 PM
      #43
    Foal
    I will share my personal experience. I watched him on RFDTV and had a trainer that loved him. She taught me a lot of his methods. Part of it was useless. Just little activities that didn't teach me or the horse crap. Part of it was fairly standard training methods that I could've learned from any good trainer. He certainly didn't invent training. It won't hurt and may help you "get to know" a new horse, but as far as serious training goes, I don't believe his methods have much value and there are better trainers out there.
         
        10-16-2013, 08:42 AM
      #44
    Foal
    I started with my first horse six years ago so I was a blank canvas. My newly acquired horse friends were all getting into Parelli and NH so I followed their lead. Truthfully, my horse kept getting more and more disobedient until I had to look for another way. I happened upon Clinton Anderson and never looked back. He goes in, gets the horse's respect quickly and the results are instantaneous. He is a little more agressive than I like to be so I just tone it down a little. I have come so far in six years I guess because I am not bogged down by the "old" ways that a lot of the experienced horse people are. My boy is amazing at liberty as well. The Parelli's seem to take three times as long as Clinton's method. They talk you to death. Clinton is action and results. I have been to his shows and he is completely entertaining as well. Just my two cents.
         
        10-16-2013, 01:31 PM
      #45
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
    Parelli said he had previously worked with the horse and things were going well. When the horse became reactionary, who knows, large crowd, new facility, Pat admitted he succumbed to the time pressure he was under. Pat has a great fondness for horses and I'm sure had time been on his side things would have turned out much differently. How many of us have screwed up in other areas because of time pressures - we all have. I for one vowed it would never happen again.

    Oh, he and Linda have worked with many horses that things did not go well with. Some worse than others. The only thing that's constant is (according to them) it's always the horse's fault (or you didn't understand what you saw ....sorry Pat, but some of us where dealing with horses before you were and we're well aware of what we see )
    That case I was referring to as being really bad was some years back and since what he was doing was clearly not going to work he should have changed to a different means (but that would not have been following what he sells and that would have been bad for business). Easier to fail and blame it on the horse or say that detractors just didn't understand what was happening. I know of cases that didn't go well since then. I watched a case on one of their own training DVD's that a friend (big fan of Parelli) insisted that I watch. Of course they had pretty much overlooked the problem Linda had with the horse (horse was absent from the rest of the training demonstrations....but mentioned as a problem). Poor horse just didn't like their method and reacted accordingly (just like my older mare years ago when a Parelli trainer tried that same thing with her and it didn't work then either). It's not so uncommon, but if you can't think beyond what someone is selling you as the only or best way (i.e. Their way) then you're not going to do as well as you could or should. It becomes the hard way for the horse and by default a less than easy way for you.
    I'm always amazed at how so many PP fans just don't see these things as problems with what's being taught. Worse yet, in cases where it can't be ignored (i.e. Like the case where a horse ended up injured) they make excuses, defend them and agree that it's the horse's fault (not that there aren't "problem" horses, but they are usually either "created" or very rare otherwise).
    Of course I also know "former" PP followers too. They figured it out and tend to be very unkind about PP (more so that those who never followed ).
    I have come to realize that the majority (not all) of his followers and trainers that I've met were not people who had been familiar with horses or training horses and basically bought into all the hype from PP promoting a product. They didn't tend to have been in a situation where there were a lot of very experienced horse people around to help them so like a drowning person they grabbed at whatever straws they came across. Then like a newly hatched duck or goose they followed there new leader blindly (after paying a hefty fee for the privilege ).
    It was very different back in 71 when after having ridden for 3 years I was given my first horse to train. There weren't all these people selling ways of training a horse. It wasn't a "product". It was a collective knowledge of horses (plural, because they are not all the same) skills, techniques and the use of a LOT of common sense that knowledgeable and skilled people passed on. That's the way it has always been. Of course you had to be willing to be the butt of a lot of jokes (such as not having the sense God gave the horse ) from these people when they saw you NOT being smart and doing something stupid, but you did learn and there was a lot a pride for both you and them when the day came that they all respected you for the job you did in making a good working horse (and of course afterwards they would each brag about what great guidance they had given .....not so much that you had done it ). Money can't buy that and no one can sell it. That amount of knowledge you can't get from someone trying to sell you a system that works with some horses, but not others. You train every horse in a way that works for that horse so you better have a larger bag of knowledge than what you pay PP for.
         
        10-16-2013, 03:25 PM
      #46
    Showing
    Back in 1971 people didn't have this great desire to have their horses love them either. I believe this is what has caused most of the problems people, especially women, have with horses. Because of their lack of discipline (teaching) and correcting, we have seen a flourish of big business promoted trainers. We need to keep in mind that when anyone signs on, the company owns you until the contract is up as the only escape is a coffin. How many times have these people had to perform when they were sick with the flu but the show had to go on?
         
        10-16-2013, 04:20 PM
      #47
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
    Back in 1971 people didn't have this great desire to have their horses love them either. I believe this is what has caused most of the problems people, especially women, have with horses. Because of their lack of discipline (teaching) and correcting, we have seen a flourish of big business promoted trainers. We need to keep in mind that when anyone signs on, the company owns you until the contract is up as the only escape is a coffin. How many times have these people had to perform when they were sick with the flu but the show had to go on?
    You're pulling my leg about the horse love stuff, right?

    Ok, you might be too young, but by the 70's you had at least 2 generations that grew up with more "horse love" piped into their lives from radio and TV than all the time following.
    This will be no where close to a full listing, but on TV and movies you had shows that created the image of undying love between horse and owner which rivaled even Disney (in some cases it was Disney )
    Roy Rogers
    Gene Autry
    My Friend Flicka
    The Lone Ranger
    Zorro
    Mr. Ed
    Black Beauty
    National Velvet
    Oh the list could go on and on. The 50's and 60's (many of the shows still going in the 70's) were the era of the horse in entertainment.
    And not to forget our Canadian friends who could forget "Sgt Preston" and his faithful dog King (he had a horse too).

    I'd say the image of the loving horse and wanting to that media image of a loving relationship with a horse was ridiculously pumped into the youth of that time. To the point that even more boys were riding than girls. My first horse was a white QH (but she couldn't be, because back then there was no such thing as a white QH even though mom and dad were both registered foundations QH ) and her name was, of course, Silver.
    bsms and ropinbiker like this.
         
        10-16-2013, 09:18 PM
      #48
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by its lbs not miles    
    I'm always amazed at how so many PP fans just don't see these things as problems with what's being taught. Worse yet, in cases where it can't be ignored (i.e. Like the case where a horse ended up injured) they make excuses, defend them and agree that it's the horse's fault This is that awful "kool-aider" phenom; kool-aiders lose their integrity to defend the P's.I have come to realize that the majority (not all) of his followers and trainers that I've met were not people who had been familiar with horses or training horses and basically bought into all the hype from PP promoting a product. They didn't tend to have been in a situation where there were a lot of very experienced horse people around to help them so like a drowning person they grabbed at whatever straws they came across. That's a problem everywhere: people have no in-the-flesh mentors! It's what creates wingnut PNH students who BELIEVE they're doing well, but are in fact messing up the horse. However, there ARE students who've succeeded to at least a foundational degree with no mentors, so it depends upon the keenness of the student. Then like a newly hatched duck or goose they followed there new leader blindly (after paying a hefty fee for the privilege ). Haha!
    It was very different back in 71 when after having ridden for 3 years I was given my first horse to train. There weren't all these people selling ways of training a horse. It wasn't a "product". It was a collective knowledge of horses (plural, because they are not all the same) skills, techniques and the use of a LOT of common sense that knowledgeable and skilled people passed on. That's the way it has always been. Of course you had to be willing to be the butt of a lot of jokes (such as not having the sense God gave the horse ) from these people when they saw you NOT being smart and doing something stupid, but you did learn and there was a lot a pride for both you and them when the day came that they all respected you for the job you did in making a good working horse (and of course afterwards they would each brag about what great guidance they had given .....not so much that you had done it ). Money can't buy that and no one can sell it. That amount of knowledge you can't get from someone trying to sell you a system that works with some horses, but not others. You train every horse in a way that works for that horse so you better have a larger bag of knowledge than what you pay PP for.
    Bill Dorrance said that true horsemanship is NOT FOR SALE. Tom Dorrance never charged a cent for his help.
    its lbs not miles likes this.
         
        10-16-2013, 10:40 PM
      #49
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Northern    
    Bill Dorrance said that true horsemanship is NOT FOR SALE. Tom Dorrance never charged a cent for his help.
    Don't know who either of them are, but I agree with them.
    It's sad, because there use to always be someone in an area that was willing to help (in my case there were a lot ). Now there's almost no one except people who have paid a fortune to get some certificate that says they can train. No one who mentored me had any certificate , but they had wonderful horses (and mules) and some came from an era when cars were rarer than horses .

    I only work with my horses anymore, but if someone needs a little help I'm always happy to provide some assistance and guidance. For that matter so are the few people I know who spend a lot of time with horses, but like me they just work with their own. Doesn't shorten my life a bit to help someone teach a horse to backup, shift their hind end or give a foot, etc..., but I usually recommend they find a good instructor when they want to start riding. That takes more time than showing them how to work with their horse and usually they're wanting to work towards competing at something.

    There's a great deal of satisfaction showing someone ways for them to succeed with their horse. Money would just cheapen it.
    Northern and 6gun Kid like this.
         

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