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Parelli? Your Thoughts?

39K views 291 replies 63 participants last post by  farmpony84 
#1 ·
what do you really think about parelli?
 
#4 ·
The program at one point was good.
Now it's turned into a money-making scheme for the Parellis, who claim it is a program for every horse and every rider; we all know that cannot be true.
I find it is marketed towards insecure/new riders with a lot of flair and showmanship, exclaiming "buy this program and you too will have a problem-free horse that you can ride with a string (R) (string costs $16 to buy)".
It has deviated from helpful to moneygrabbing.
 
#5 ·
who claim it is a program for every horse and every rider; we all know that cannot be true.
I like this sentence JDI because it is so true I have tried parelli MADE my own stuff so as not to buy anything and it just didn't really work out for Phoebe it works wonders with another one of our horses but just not Phoebe it is just not for her but I will say I have tried it I am not putting it down but it is just not for my mare.
 
#9 ·
My thoughts? Oh goodness, this might be long lol.

It's an absolutely wonderful program, the best out there IMO. It's way more than riding, as they say. You learn how to be a HORSEMAN, not just someone who rides and shows horses. Anyone can learn how to ride, but it takes a very dedicated person to become a horseman, one who is willing to always think like the horse and to never blame him for acting like a perfect horse.....one who is willing to be uncomfortable while learrning but knows it's for the best of the horse. Parelli teaches you this.

Parelli has identified horse's Horsenalities and has given us strategies to use on each Horsenality, because each horse is different. The idea of this is very innovative and has helped me TREMENDOUSLY....I get results so much faster now.

Parelli teaches you how to read the horse, down to the very very subtle signs of fear, dominance, catatonia, introverted behavior, etc. No one else that I know of teaches you this and what to do about it.

It's really a people training program.....we have to learn how to communicate in a way the horse understands and that is natural to him, and this goes against our natural instincts. I can honestly say that the principles I've learned in the program have transferred over to my personal life and my relationships with people.

Parelli is not for every person (for a lot of reasons, but I'm not sure you want me to go into that), however it is for every horse. Parelli is based on HORSE phsycology, not QH psychology, not trail riding horses psychology, but on HORSE psychology....how horses think, feel, act and play, what's important to them. And really, Parelli is less something you do, and more something you are....you have to think about the true essence of the program. It's something you embody and EMULATE, not imitate (if you want to be good ;)).

Parelli takes you from very beginner to very advanced, studying in 4 Savvies and getting skilled in the fundamentals for performance. Back yard horse owners to world class competitors know the benefits of Parelli. That you can not deny.

As a side note, Linda and Pat have no control over the prices......Mark Wieler owns 51% of the company and that is his doing (and I hate Mark). Linda and Pat need to make a living, but they are not out to scam people, they are out to change the world for horses and the people who love them, to help people live their dreams no matter how big or small, and to develop a partnership with their horses that is based on love, language and leadership IN EQUAL DOSES....and of course fun!

I think I'm done for now lol.
 
#10 ·
in saying that, wouldnt you rather learn with you and your horse together... learning each others language at the same speed, same time, just you and your horse figuring out each other for yourselves. you don't need to spend hundreds to do that. Its worked for me, I am sure it works for many.. this is why I am more for monty roberts!
 
#11 ·
This is what I think-- you take what you like from this clinician, and take what you like from that clinician, what you don't like you dont take-- the only thing that I have bought from a clinicians clinic is a really good rope halter- On Parelli they have to much stuff to handle while trying to work with a horse- I'm kind of clumsy so I would really be more clumsier with all those things.! IF you try one thing and it doesnt work out you try another approach. The point I suppose is how to make the connection from you to your horse so that he understands and responds!
 
#12 ·
I like the basic philosophy, the idea of helping the horse to understand, and the handler learning to understand the horse, but that isn't Parelli per se, its more Tom Dorrance and the other foundation trainers (of horses and of people) of the NH movement.

I have had a similar experience with the system itself to that of savvylover112, my horses just don't seem to respond to Parelli specific techniques. They usually just stare at me like I'm stupid or something :?. I have personally gotten better reactions and responses from my Clinton Anderson/Chris Cox/Dennis Reis/Ken McNabb/John Lyons/whoever else is on RFD - Ryan Gingrich (shudders) + a healthy dose of critical thinking and common sense. Granted, I probably was doing something wrong, as I learned about the 7 games from a magazine article, some Googling, and a few infomercial-esqe tv shows.

I also think that a lot of mainstream tv NH trainers focus much of their time and energy on foundation training, colt starting, and rehabbing problem horses (and owners :wink:). Because of this, it's up to the owner/handler/trainer to decide where to go when the solid foundation has been established. You can refine a foundation to kingdom come, but someday you need to decide when to level up. Dressage analogy here: Perfection at Training level, but what if you never take that leap to begin schooling at First level? I do know that some NH trainers are attempting to remedy this shortfall: Clinton Anderson has an advanced riding DVD, I think Parelli has something similar (at any rate, followers of the Parelli's have added elements of classical dressage and other disciplines to produce a well educated horse).

The long and short of my rant... Parelli ok, he gets results. His biggest faults are the sheer price of his materials (but that can be argued of several trainers), and the potential for followers to end up in a "foundation skills rut" if they do not branch out a bit (again something that can be argued of most NH tv trainers).

My biggest personal beef (getting really subjective here... I'm not at all meaning to offend), sometimes the Parelli's just rub me wrong, and almost seem condescending in the way they come across, that because I don't follow their system my horses hate me, but that is certainly just my personal opinion and perception.
 
#17 ·
I personally don't like mixing training techniques because you run the high risk of confusing your horse. There have been times when something wasn't working right for me (especially with my warmblood) but did I give up and throw in the towl and look for another out? Nope. That's because I know the program works and I believe in it.....and most importantly, I know that if something isn't working it's because of me. It's not the program at fault, it's my ability to read the horse, be the right leader, not taking enough time, etc. that is the problem. I think it's because of this determination to be the best horse-woman I can be for my horse and my dedication to a program that does work that I rarely have problems anymore....with my own horse or other people's horses.
 
#18 ·
I personally don't like mixing training techniques because you run the high risk of confusing your horse.
Um sorry.. what?

No, you mix them together. For instance, I use Monty Roberts' join-up technique, I use a surcingle and bungees, I use some classical dressage techniques.... it's drawing from ALL angles that gives you the best chance of having something in your "horsey toolbox" for each horse.
No confusion, simply a melange of techniques, rather than having only one, singular view on how to train a horse.
 
#19 ·
To me it seems it would confuse the horse because he wouldn't know who is coming to the barn today.....the person who acts more natural, or the person who acts completely different just because their goal for that day has changed.

At least in my view, Parelli stays the same no matter if you are practicing a safety technique for trail riding or you have preformance goals and are practicing the fundamentals for performance. The attitude doesn't change from simple maneuvers to more difficult ones, the principles don't change either.
 
#25 ·
To me it seems it would confuse the horse because he wouldn't know who is coming to the barn today.....the person who acts more natural, or the person who acts completely different just because their goal for that day has changed.
It doesn't confuse a horse, it may confuse the rider if you don't know what you're doing. If you only use one method and only know one philosophy you aren't going to get very far. For me, I have feedback and ideas from multiple clinicians and trainers, as well as books by masters. The clinics I have ridden in or audited and use in my riding regularly (although I have a regular once a week lesson): Gerd Heuschmann, Jen Verharen, Ulla, and Beth Glosten. When I'm riding, I use their different techniques together to create my own. If you take a specific problem you have in your riding, let's say the horse's head comes up and braces. From Jen, I think of making sure his body is straight and isn't going out the hind or shoulder. From Gerd, I think of letting the horse flow through my seat and hold my inside hand up and out. From Ulla, I put the forward energy of his hind into my hands. From Beth, I think of making sure my elbows are relaxed and my position is correct. This creates a rainbow of things I can do and is more effective than just one method. What 'method' are you currently using?
 
#21 ·
I am not a fan of Parelli. It seems to have a cult following of riding amateurs. I have a great bond with my horse and I didn't do any of that seven games crap, I actually read books by REAL horse masters on how horses think and see the world. Most world class riders do not have that place because they did the "porcupine game". I think the parelli crap can be fun for people who don't have any horse sense but I don't think it does anything that good training and an educated mind can't.
 
#22 ·
Parelli. Ugh.
They are just making money by marketing techniques used by horsemen for many years. Like the "porcupine game": ask the horse to move over/back up/etc. Use pressure, if the horse doesn't move, increase pressure... pat/rub spot when the horse finally moves.

....well, DUH!!!! Parelli certainly didn't invent that one.
 
#23 ·
IMHO, there is a major difference between taking what is helpful and relevant for a specific horse at a specific time and causing confusion. As JDI said, you can borrow specific exercises, techniques, and games, from many different trainers and have a coherent program that gets good results. For example, you could start a ride by doing a little Lunging for Respect, Friendly Game, and Grooming and Showmanship to warm up on the ground, mount up and do some lateral flexion, walk off on a loose rein, move into trot and pick up a feel on the reins, ride some 20 meter circles, change rein, do leg yields from quarterline to rail, pick up a canter, canter a figure 8, drop stirrups, transition to walk, slowly put slack in the reins and knot them out of the way over the horse's neck and ride simple figures without them to cool down... on and on. That might be similar to one of my afternoon workouts with Scout, borrowing several "name brand" exercises, plus a few figures that have been around as long as people wanted their horses to "dance."

I have a darn strong suspicion that this is how many of the Parelli's own Games and techniques were developed. Pat certainly borrowed many ideas from his mentors, and put them together, mixed, obviously, with his own ideas and spin on the base philosophy, into a system that delivers results if applied correctly (this caveat applies to every training system out there, NH, BNNH, or the guy with the roundpen down the street who saddle breaks colts for neighbors.) Every trainer stands on the shoulders of the one(s) who taught him/her.

The problem comes when you try to accomplish the same task in 2 different, potentially contradictory ways. For example, my horses learn early how to back up off of lead rope pressure backwards, like a G&S horse. Eventually, they get really sharp and will back up with my shoulder as I walk back. However, the Yo-yo Game seems to completely mystify them. Because they associate backing up with a certain feeling, and with keeping their throatlatch beside my shoulder, they don't try to back up to release the pressure, at least not before my wiggle arm is wiggled out. :lol:
 
#24 ·
If you only learn ONE way to train a horse, you have a very limited range of resources to use.
If you can learn everything, every technique possible, then you have a huge arsenal behind you to combat any challenge that is put in front of you.

Heck, if you only learned one way to, let's say... cook dinner, you only knew how to make Italian food, then that's great, Italian is good, but you're missing out on so much other good food out there, you'll never know what else is out there that might be better, OR enhance your original recipes.
 
#26 ·
Oh Oh Oh! I'm also NOT a fan of how the bash (or atleast used to) dressage!
Linda goes out and tells people our sport is harmful and mean to the horses, but just recently they bought Hot Jazz by Hotline - one of the top bred foals from Yancey Farms. Why? Because apparently dressage isn't the devil's spawn now.

The cookie cutter, carrot stick waving, bag of tricks that they claim are one size fits all are just gimmicks. Good trainers do what's best for the horse on an individual basis, and if they don't "click" with a horse then hopefully they refer it to someone else.

None of their games are going to truly prepare a horse to be a successful riding horse.

I do however admire them for knowing how to make money in this economy ;)
 
#27 ·
I think Parelli has it's place, but I don't think it's the only method you should use. I feel the same way about Clinton, Monty Roberts, etc as well.

I like the idea of working with your horse and understanding how he percieves the world and catering to that. If join-up helps me do that, great. If the seven games help me do that, awesome.

I have tried the seven games with my horse and they did not work for us however I know Spirithorse has had great success. If you take away the marketing and cult following, I think Parelli teaches the same basic horsemanship other trainers do. Parelli, to me is not special. He did not discover something new. Therefore, I can not use Parelli, and gain the same bond with my horse.

I too believe in taking ideas from various sources to create your own way to work with your horse. The seven games did not work well with Diesel, but they may work better with another horse. Same goes for any other specialized training "technique".

I think you need to find your own way to communicate with your horse.
 
#35 ·
I think you need to find your own way to communicate with your horse.
To quote Mr. Parelli... "And the crowd goes wild!!!" Very well put. :D

I read on the FuglyHorseoftheDay blog, about how one woman wrote to Pat Parelli about her appy. The horse was quite dominant and was biting her, to the point where he was leaving big bruises on her. Parelli's answer - give him a carrot, make friends with him and then he will stop biting you. :shock:
Dear Lord... where's that eye rolling smiley???

Although I do see the direction of this thread and everyone is entitled to his/her opinion I can see how using The parelli program combined with other NH training can be confusing to the horse. The Parelli games/levels build upon each other. For example the seven games are learned in an order 1-7 , you do them in order and get really good at doing them then you mix them up. Level 1 tasks are before Level 2 task etc...The exercises build upon each other until you have success in all areas-Savvys. I believe that it is the same with other programs ...( just as an example) Clinton Anderson has gaining respect on the ground 1 & 2 .You should follow the exercises in order on 1 before jumping to 2. If you pick and chose just randomly and dont have a clear outline of what it is you want to accomplish you are being confusing to the horse.
An excellent point. Any rider/trainer/handler does need to build a foundation before moving up, but that is true for any training methodology, whether Parelli, Anderson, or Classical Dressage. There are steps to follow, and, by and large, most roads lead to Rome. Any issues here are the result, not of mixing nethods, but of asking a horse for too much, too soon. There's being mixed up within a method, and there's mixing and matching entire components of different methods. Mixing and matching can work well as long as your horse is properly prepared, mentally and physically, for what you are asking of him. I do recognize, however, the benefits of having a well structured, step-by-step system. People (in general) in my experience like processes to be laid out in a systematic way. (Actually, for shunning all predatory activity, something that systematic seems a little out of character for the Parelli's... aren't predators supposed to have highly systematic goals and methods or something?) There's a reason why instructions come in the box for gadgets with moving parts. The Parelli's and others have provided a set of "instructions" for dealing with horses in general for anyone who wishes to take advantage of it. The thing is... a horse is not a stereo, an internal combustion engine, or Barbie's Dream House. With these things, if you do one thing not quite according to the instructions, your (insert item here) will not function at all. A horse is a little different, IMHO. There are a dozen ways to get the end result, but skipping any steps is what sets anyone and any horse up for trouble.
 
#28 · (Edited)
I think Parelli and "natural horsemanship" is excellent for groundwork, teaching manners and establishing respect on the ground, but that's about it. I agree with the idea of working with the horse and teaching it a way it can understand, using its own language, etc... but that's not natural horsemanship, that's just good horsemanship, and you don't have to use Parelli's methods to do that.
I also don't like how soft and "touchy-feeling" (no offence intended anyone!!!) some of it has gotten. They seem to have dismissed the idea of discipline.
I read on the FuglyHorseoftheDay blog, about how one woman wrote to Pat Parelli about her appy. The horse was quite dominant and was biting her, to the point where he was leaving big bruises on her. Parelli's answer - give him a carrot, make friends with him and then he will stop biting you. :shock:
Lost some respect for him there. The general idea of it and the principle behind it when it started I do agree with, but I think you need balance and an open mind.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Although I do see the direction of this thread and everyone is entitled to his/her opinion I can see how using The parelli program combined with other NH training can be confusing to the horse. The Parelli games/levels build upon each other. For example the seven games are learned in an order 1-7 , you do them in order and get really good at doing them then you mix them up. Level 1 tasks are before Level 2 task etc...The exercises build upon each other until you have success in all areas-Savvys. I believe that it is the same with other programs ...( just as an example) Clinton Anderson has gaining respect on the ground 1 & 2 .You should follow the exercises in order on 1 before jumping to 2. If you pick and chose just randomly and dont have a clear outline of what it is you want to accomplish you are being confusing to the horse.

I have used Parelli with my horses, more so with my Mustang and I feel that it has done some wonderful things for our relationship. Also , SpiritHorse has done some amazing things with her horse and has great success as well.
Having a feel for the parelli program myself it is more about how you are with your horses and not putting your goals before your relationship.
I do not agree with the statement that Parelli is for amateurs with no horse sense because there has been many top riders who have used the Parelli principles with excellent results.

There is a lot of negative posts about Parelli ( to each their own) , if you have not had success with it then perhaps another series will work for you.

OR perhaps taking a few ideas from others and mixing it together is the best for you and your horse...that is great too as long as you are not flying around so much and taking the time that it takes...: )
 
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#31 ·
OR perhaps taking a few ideas from others and mixing it together is the best for you and your horse...
That's all I'm saying.
If you don't know how to train a horse, don't rely on DVDs to teach you... please!! I suggest taking lessons/clinics/whatever with a lot of different trainers throughout your riding career - even the bad ones will teach you something :)
If you stick on one program and expect it to work for every horse, you're going to end up disappointed. No one singular training program works for each horse, and it's idiotic to claim that.
At least if you have a lot of experience with different backgrounds to pull from, you have a wide base and will likely be able to address whatever problem comes your way.
Parelli is good for some horse/rider combinations, for others it is the last thing they should be doing. Moreover, Parelli should NOT be your only training "tool" in your "training toolbox" as that is very narrowminded.
 
#34 ·
To me it seems it would confuse the horse because he wouldn't know who is coming to the barn today.....
Looks like you need to expierament for yourself and see what happens ;-).

I've found that trying to expose your horse to as many different people (with non-abusive hands mind you) as possible makes a more solid horse in the future. Exposing them to different people once and a while makes them listen to you and make them more willing to what you are asking them to do.

Look at lesson horses for example. Yes, some may seem to be more 'dead headed' but would you want a more 'broke horse' that you can clean up by being faster with signals? Or a horse that is completely insain and won't listen to you? For safety, I think, I would go with the lesson horse.
 
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