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Parelli? Your Thoughts?

This is a discussion on Parelli? Your Thoughts? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        11-25-2009, 03:58 PM
      #251
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Speed Racer    

    It's been my experience that the Parelli-ites get caught up in the silly gear and 'games', and not the WHY of what they're doing.

    You can accomplish NH with just regular equine gear that doesn't cost a boatload of money, but for some reason all the Parelli noobs think the 'special' gear has some kind of magical qualities that regular things like lead ropes and lunge whips don't have.



    It's the person on the other end of the lead line that makes or breaks a horse, not the equipment used.
    I certainly can't argue with that!! One reason I like Ray Hunt and Tom Dorrance and that crowd is they don't do the 'step by step by step' as much as they do the 'think about how you can help your horse succeed' kind of clinics. You need to spend the time to figure out where your horses mind is at. When I rode with Ray he would spend a lot of time talking about the philisophy of how a horse works and what a horse needs to get what you want done. He didn't say 'after you do this you watch the next DVD and make your horse do this'. He rarely told you flat out how to fix the problem. He gave you the tools to figure out for yourself how to fix it. It has been a year and a half since I did the clinic with Ray and I still think about things he said and realize something new. I think the best piece of advice he ever gave is in my sig line. Think about what happened, before what happened, happened. There is not nearly enough of that going on with the people that follow the step-by-step guys.
         
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        11-25-2009, 04:00 PM
      #252
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kevinshorses    
    Why not use the tool that you have in your hand that is connected to the closest part of your horse?
    So how do you get them to back up when they're not attached to a lead line?

    My horses back up on voice command, regardless of whether or not they're haltered and on a lead line. That's especially useful when I'm going into a stall, and don't want them to be piggy and crowd me.

    Casper likes to crowd when it's feeding time, and with the voice command he won't come anywhere near me until I tell him he can.

    I now understand the concept of why you're doing it, so thank you for clearing that up. If it works for you that's great, but I just don't see the need to incorporate it into my training regimen.

    We're doing the same training, just have slightly different methods to accomplish it. Neither one is wrong, just different.
         
        11-25-2009, 04:01 PM
      #253
    Yearling
    I have no real problem with anyone that has some kind of "FEEL".

    The wiggle/whip thing is just very amateur and is used by beginners that do not know how to move a horse back and it just bugs me.

    Take a bathroom scale and wrap one of those rope halters around it and have a friend watch the scale as you whip the rope.
    I have shown students that they can VERY easily send 25 to 30 pounds of pressure to the head of the horse by flicking that lead rope around.
    I am not saying that it is always that much,But the end effect is to send the horses head UP.

    The other problem is that ANY cue that you were able to send to the horse is NOT transferable into the saddle.
    You don't wiggle to get a horse to back up as you are riding and I am not interested in creating different cues for backup.
    Also look at what happens when the lead rope is whipped vertically and horizontally as there are two very different effects and impacts.

    After all the energy created has to dissipate somewhere...Right!
         
        11-25-2009, 06:35 PM
      #254
    Started
    My horses don't back up if the rope accidently moves or wiggles or whatever. Why? Because my BODY LANGUAGE didn't tell them to move. It's also because I'm advanced in the program...the rope wiggling is to help get the horse tuned into what your body is saying. I have personally seen instances where the person was able to stay safe by sending a nice coil down the rope and the horse backs off because he knows what it means. Sorry, but if it's a way to keep one safe, I'm all for it. I personally have never been in danger using any of the techniques or principles outlined in the program.

    We also will back our horses up by pressing on their chest and nose, and the halter knot. However, if a horse gets spooked and jumps forward toward me and I need him to GET BACK I am certainly not going to get close to the horse and press on his chest! I'll shake my rope or send a coil down, whatever is appropriate, and get that horse away from me.

    Wiggling a rope, in and of itself, might not transfer to the saddle, but the concept of rhythmic motion DOES. You can't press on your horse's chest from the saddle to get him to back up, so in your mind Marecare, why do it at all, right? I'll tell you why it still works, because the concept of steady pressure translates to the saddle. If the horse knows to yield to and from steady AND rhythmic pressure that will translate to the saddle.
         
        11-25-2009, 06:47 PM
      #255
    Yearling
    I am willing to meet you half way Spirithorse.
    Add another line and teach the horse how to DRIVE.
    Now all the cues are the same as riding and the student is learning how to use two lines.
    As the horse gets older or the handler does, the exercise can still be done and maybe even change over to a cart someday.
    This can be done in a halter and then later changed over to a bit.

    I just think that the "Wiggle" is a poor attempt at feel.
    I have just seen too many that did not understand the movement banging a clasp into the chin and jaw of the horse.
         
        11-25-2009, 06:51 PM
      #256
    Started
    Exaggerate to teach, refine as you go along. Works for humans as well as horses.
         
        11-25-2009, 08:10 PM
      #257
    Yearling
    That is a very nice saying and I love to hear it.
    The reality is that people exaggerate and then AGITATE the horse to death.

    The problem is that people expect horses to learn all these things and they (the humans) are unwilling to teach their body how to do things themselves.

    I just got back from a clinic where a woman has been working with ground work with her horse for 7 years and all I can say is that she looked like a chicken with it's head cut off flailing around trying to get a response out of her horse and tripped over her carrot stick and fell on her face.

    Some people should take up bowling or another hobby.
    The step by step programs just attract this kind of approach and the person needs to work on themselves and stop bothering horses and driving them nuts.
         
        11-25-2009, 08:29 PM
      #258
    Started
    Everyone has to learn sometime. Everyone looks like a chicken with its head cut off at some point. That's part of learning....and when is learning ever convinient or comfortable? ;) I know when I started Parelli I would trip over the stuff all the time, but I had to learn how to be coordinated and savvy with my tools. Now, it's second nature to me, I'm very fluid with my tools. It's all about experience and how much try and dedication the person has.

    I will agree with you, some people just shouldn't do the horse thing. It'd save them a lot of frustration (and sometimes fear) and it would spare the horse....but thank goodness horses are so forgiving. There need to be more hum-dee-dum horses out there who can tolorate people learning on them. Our QH was worth his weight in gold that way, he was the perfect beginner horse.
         
        11-26-2009, 06:32 AM
      #259
    Foal
    The thing with parelli is that a lot of it is totally unnecasarry in that you can achieve the desired result with out all of the aids, just by thinking ahead and applying some principles of basic good horsemanship. And a worrying thing that I find with the disiples of it is that they set themselves up as experts ( saw the dvd and went to the workshops!) and then advise gung-ho in sorting out that horse, but I find that they are so hellbent on displaying thier box of tricks that they have missed the key fact that the owner has stated at the beginning; that is that the owner has not logically comunicated his/her wishes to the horse;the origion of the problem is nearly always down to the owner/ handler.. but the parelli person is just eager to get out thier box of tricks and dominate the horse- they seem to miss the entire reason why there is a problem in the first place. And I am agreeing with all of you that say there are a lot of people who will never be any good with a horse; I do believe you either have it or you dont- yes you can build on what you are lacking in, but the real feel for a horse is within you. The problem with all of this pp type stuff is that it can become a destructive thing, and unfortuneately it seems to attract a lot of people who should probably have given up the horsehandling phase of thier life, rather than investing a lot of time and money on something they just arent going to get. It is unfortunate that it is the horse that pays for all of this heavy-handedness. The kindest aids you have are your voice and your hands, used kindly. And you can accomplish a lot with just these two things + they are free!
         
        11-26-2009, 12:21 PM
      #260
    Started
    There is a reason to Pat's madness ;) lol. All I can say is with my appy, who took me to Level 3 riding and Level 4 ground work before he went blind, everything had a purpose and worked beautifully...with my warmblood, it's the same situation, it has completely turned around his behavior (as I knew it would). All the horses I work with and have worked with all responded wonderfully. So all of it is necessary, IMO, because it works. Is it the only way to train a horse? No, but it's a darn good way to train a horse IMO.
         

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