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Parellis take on grazing while riding

This is a discussion on Parellis take on grazing while riding within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        08-24-2013, 02:44 PM
      #31
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SammysMom    
    Hey, Wallaby, do you mind me asking how you get that effect? My horse is very pushy around feeding time (it's a struggle each time to make him hold still while I take his halter off if there's grain in the stall). So far I've just been blocking him and giving him a "Hey!" when he tries to duck around me, but he only lets up for a split second and I usually call it a victory when he looks away for a second. I would looove it, though, if he would stand like a sane horse until I give him the ok rather than weaving around me like a demented boxer. Should I just do it "bigger"? Is there a danger of really scaring him if I react really strongly if he gets pushy (I mean as in yelling, making noise, chasing him away, of course, not hitting him)? I have a pretty passive/non-confrontational type of personality, so being "lead mare" isn't natural for me. I have to have rules and tips to follow

    I am not advocating that horsemanship be based on scaring your horse, but I don't know why a person would go to great lengths to avoid it if it is necessary to get the horse to actually pay attention to you. So he gets momentarily scared? Horses get scared all the time , and they remember what and where they got scared. If you just scared him, and left it at that, he would become scared of you. But if you get big enough that he is momentarily scared (more like startled), then you take the attention he just gave you and you make him do something that earns him a nice reward, then the experience is memorable but also connected to a certain behavior that , when done by the horse, earns him freedom from any big or startling action by the human.
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        08-24-2013, 02:52 PM
      #32
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SammysMom    
    Hey, Wallaby, do you mind me asking how you get that effect? My horse is very pushy around feeding time (it's a struggle each time to make him hold still while I take his halter off if there's grain in the stall). So far I've just been blocking him and giving him a "Hey!" when he tries to duck around me, but he only lets up for a split second and I usually call it a victory when he looks away for a second. I would looove it, though, if he would stand like a sane horse until I give him the ok rather than weaving around me like a demented boxer. Should I just do it "bigger"? Is there a danger of really scaring him if I react really strongly if he gets pushy (I mean as in yelling, making noise, chasing him away, of course, not hitting him)? I have a pretty passive/non-confrontational type of personality, so being "lead mare" isn't natural for me. I have to have rules and tips to follow
    Exactly what Cherie+TinyLiny said! Demand respect and you'll get it.
    If your guy has been getting away with disrespecting you for a while, he may take longer to come around, but if you're consistent, fair, stick with it, and never take "no" for an answer, he'll come around pretty quickly.

    Have you ever watched a bigger herd of horses, one with a really dominant horse, a few subordinates, and at least 3+ "mid-levels"? If you haven't gotten the chance, that's something you might want to do to help yourself feel better about being "hard" on your guy.
    The dominant horse has no problem really blowing up at a lower-ranking horse that has gotten in his/her way. And by "really blowing up", I mean kicking, biting. Chasing, the whole deal until that lesser horse would never imagine trying whatever he/she just tried evvvver again.
    I once saw a extremely dominant little QH Pony mare RUN backwards, hind legs flying, at a gelding who had dared come near her while she was eating. She then turned and chased the gelding clear to the other side of the pasture, all for getting within 15ft of her while she was eating. She was less extreme with the other horses but that guy was pushy and stubborn, so she needed to make sure he got the message.
    Anyway, I learned a lot from watching that little mare. She knew how to discipline each horse in the herd perfectly. Even the more timid horses - she could swing her head to send them running...and be mutually grooming that same horse 30 minutes later.

    Her corrections were always short, sweet, and to the point. The "2 second rule" was pretty accurate with her discipline. She kept discipline short but was as heavy-handed as needed during that time. I try to do the same thing - I don't keep correcting again and again until the horse finally responds. I correct fast and HARD, if that's what the horse needs. Once the horse starts self-correcting [for instance, with hay being placed out - starts going for it, I say "ah-ah!", and the horse pulls back ever so slightly from the hay, but continues to go for it], I'll lower my correction level. But at first, I keep it fast, hard, and memorable! Haha
    [I also always give a 'warning' with "QUIT!" or "AH-AH!!", then immediately correct. That way, eventually "ah-ah" or "quit" is all the correction that's really necessary. I'm like you, I don't like to have to physically correct alllll the time!]


    Sorry!!! Haha
         
        08-24-2013, 02:56 PM
      #33
    Showing
    I suspect his article has more to do with getting something in the horse's stomach. The horse is fine for about an hour then should be allowed to graze for 5 or 10 min, however it works best for the rider. My preference is to dismount and remove the bridle to avoid a rein getting stepped on.
         
        08-24-2013, 03:13 PM
      #34
    Super Moderator
    You are saying a horse must have something to eat every hour? How do working horses manage?
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        08-24-2013, 03:48 PM
      #35
    Yearling
    My guys stand I'm their run ins from 8 am to 4 pm every single day. They may come out to get a drink but they don't graze at all during those hours. And that is by their decision. A horse doesn't have to eat all the time. JUst because people say to give a horse 24/7 access to food didn't mean they can't or shouldn't go without.
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        08-24-2013, 04:47 PM
      #36
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    you are saying a horse must have something to eat every hour? How do working horses manage?
    LOL, mine manage just fine. Get going just shortly after dawn, take a break for an hour or so mid-day to let them graze and eat something ourselves, go until early evening and then call it a day and put them back on their full access hay.

    Surprisingly enough, we don't have colic, we don't have founder, we don't have ulcers....nothing. They stay slick and healthy and have plenty of energy to finish the day and repeat it tomorrow.

    Sure, it's ideal if the horse can eat constantly throughout the day, but it's not necessary to maintain a healthy horse.



    Sammysmom, there's a difference between scaring a horse and correcting lack of respect. Demanding respect by any means necessary won't terrorize the horse to the point that they start being fearful/cautious around you, it just reminds them that you are the alpha and you are to be obeyed.

    Almost all of my horses have been gotten after hard at some point in their lives (in the case of some of them *cough*Rafe*cough*, pretty frequently). They still walk up to me in the pasture with no fear and I can do anything I want to around them without them flinching and spooking. It's just a matter of knowing when is enough and when is too much.
    franknbeans, Wallaby and Cherie like this.
         
        08-24-2013, 06:01 PM
      #37
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smrobs    
    Sammysmom, there's a difference between scaring a horse and correcting lack of respect. Demanding respect by any means necessary won't terrorize the horse to the point that they start being fearful/cautious around you, it just reminds them that you are the alpha and you are to be obeyed.

    Almost all of my horses have been gotten after hard at some point in their lives (in the case of some of them *cough*Rafe*cough*, pretty frequently). They still walk up to me in the pasture with no fear and I can do anything I want to around them without them flinching and spooking. It's just a matter of knowing when is enough and when is too much.
    This. This this this this and this.

    I have actually been accused of abusing my horses. These accusations tend to come from butterfly farts and rainbows types but it's come from a friend as well.

    Thing is... if I'm abusive... how come my sensitive red TB filly adores me? I'm 99% sure, based on her reactions, that she was abused at some point before I got her. She came to me absolutely terrified of people. Yep, she's been hit. Hard. More than a few times. And she doesn't react any differently than any other horse I've had.

    It's about timing, and being justified in your discipline. If I hit my filly for snatching her foot away, she would probably kill me in her panic to get away. That's too much discipline. Actually for that she's better off if I just ignore it and pick the foot up again. If, on the other hand, I hit her because she's just walked over the top of me, she gets off and gives me space. Mostly. Sometimes she tries it on again. If she does that I know I wasn't strong enough with her the first time.

    And yes, I get meaner when it comes to feed time. My space gets much wider and my horses don't get fed if they can't be polite about it.
    franknbeans likes this.
         
        08-25-2013, 02:37 PM
      #38
    Green Broke
    When we first got into horses, the owner/trainer at the stable we boarded at told us that you should not let the horse eat while they are with you. He also said the same goes for when they are eating. You leave them alone. With you is work time and eating time is their time.

    Do I follow the rule? With a green horse, yes. With a seasoned horse, no. However, I do not let the horse decide when to eat. It is always my decision. This starts with everyday feeding. The first few times, I take a stick with and make the horse stand back. If they get too close, they walk into me waving the stick. When they stand back nicely, I go rub their neck and walk away. I will be as forceful as necessary but going and rubbing shows that they don't need to fear me.

    When you have that respect on the ground, its easier under saddle. I still make it my decision when they eat. I use split reins and tie a knot where if I put the reins on the horn of the saddle, they can't reach the grass. When they stop trying to get to the grass, I put pressure on top of their neck as a cue for them to put their head down to eat. You have to wait until they stop trying though. To get their head up, I'll just make contact on the bit and squeeze my calves on their sides. If that doesn't work I pull one rein like a one rein stop. They can't brace against that very easy and have to move their head away from the grass. It's worked for every horse I've rode.
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        08-25-2013, 05:36 PM
      #39
    Green Broke
    I teach mine to eat on command, I use "break time" as a command. But that is after no eating under saddle is firmly established. Id only do this for an endurance horse. For any thing else than can pretty much wait till I am done. I actually had Bo trained pretty well for this when I was on the ground. I could lead him from the ground, jogging, stop at a nice looking spot, he put head down, take couple bites, Id start jogging again, he chew till he was ready for another bite id stop, repeat. We actually got the timeing down pretty good, and he would ever pull or put his head down till I stopped, then would raise up soon as I started moving again..
         
        08-28-2013, 10:25 AM
      #40
    Showing
    I'd rather prevent ulcers than try to deal with them. An empty stomach becomes too acidic. Work horses I've known generally worked about two hours then were provided with feed while the handler took a break
         

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