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PNH: toes out or toes in?

This is a discussion on PNH: toes out or toes in? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • PNH - toes out or in? Northern
  • Horse forum PNH toes out

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    07-08-2013, 10:11 AM
  #11
Foal
I don't follow parelli, but it's what I've grown up knowing
     
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    07-08-2013, 05:57 PM
  #12
Showing
A natural position would be slightly outward unless the ride is pigeon-toed. Forcing the leg into a set position will soon create havoc on the knees or ankle to knee connection. Parelli rides with his toes out because he walks like a duck, toed out.
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    07-08-2013, 06:20 PM
  #13
Super Moderator
I don't see why being a Parelli student should make any difference to the way you ride - as in correctly positioned - otherwise all PP followers would stand out in the crowd a bit too much surely?
Linda is venturing more into the 'English side of riding and dressage so has to set the right example
Your toes should be pointing as much forwards as your leg muscles, ligaments and joints will allow, if they are pointing outwards then there's a chance you're going to be constantly niggling at your horse with your heels or spurs and you run the risk of being tempted to 'grip' with the back of your legs
     
    07-08-2013, 06:25 PM
  #14
Trained
Teach yourself to ride with your toes forward. At first it will feel like you are torqueing your lower leg but you should be cueing with the insides of your calves, NOT the back of them.
Look on the Internet for top riders with their toes pointed way out--you won't find them.
The natural position for your feet is toes relaxed and pointed 1/2-way down, as you do without stirrups, or like the Frederick Remington American Indian paintings depict.
I really wonder where these fads come from...
     
    07-08-2013, 06:50 PM
  #15
Foal
It's not a fad. When I sit on the horse, my feet automatically turn a bit out. They seem to turn out even further when I apply pressure. It's how I've always ridden. I'm not saying that is necessarily correct, but I am saying its not a fad.
     
    07-10-2013, 02:18 PM
  #16
Trained
It is not correct, but it's not bc of fashion. It is bc your seat is more secure. Honestly I suggest that you pay attention to your toes forward. Not like there are any "toe police" out there, but when your toes turn way out and you practice riding this way you pull your knees away from the horse when you spur or pull your feet up. Having your leg in contant contact with the side of your horse and keeping as long a leg as possible is what keeps you from becoming a "sack of potatoes" on top.
natisha likes this.
     
    07-10-2013, 10:05 PM
  #17
Trained
Since this has moved from what Parelli teaches to what is right, here is the book answer:

It depends.

I think dressage teaches 0 deg (I'm not a dressage rider). The US Cavalry taught 45 deg out. IIRC, George Morris says 0-15 deg, but that some people may need to be up to 45 deg out on some horses. An early book by VS Littauer taught 30 deg.

My guess based on being a 50 year old with tight legs and hips when I started is that the best answer is either A) as far forward as a relaxed, draped leg allows, or B) whatever is taught for a specific sport.

I started at about 60 deg out. My right leg now normally is about 30 deg out, and my left is 45 or more . That happens when I jog as well - my left foot hits the ground about 20 deg further out than my right. That may be some weird thing in my leg. Oh well. I have to ride with the body I have, and it sure ain't perfect!

I suspect Linda Parelli now teaches toes forward due to her involvement in dressage, while Pat Parelli will continue to ride however he does. Judging from a sample of pictures, that would be in the 15-45 deg out range.
     
    07-26-2013, 10:50 PM
  #18
Started
The point of my asking PP students this question is that Linda, in Level 1, teaches to ride "like Charlie Chaplin", I.e., toes hanging out as much as they naturally would, no effort to change anything, THEN in Colleen's collaborative PNH dvd, she tells Linda to turn all in. So, does that instruction replace the L1 instruction, or what?

I guess that no PNH students want to explain, so thanks to other contributors, anyhoo.
     
    07-27-2013, 09:45 AM
  #19
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern    
The point of my asking PP students this question is that Linda, in Level 1, teaches to ride "like Charlie Chaplin", I.e., toes hanging out as much as they naturally would, no effort to change anything, THEN in Colleen's collaborative PNH dvd, she tells Linda to turn all in. So, does that instruction replace the L1 instruction, or what?

I guess that no PNH students want to explain, so thanks to other contributors, anyhoo.
I assume it does, if that is what is being taught now. Or you could just ignore it and keep doing what you're doing.
     
    07-30-2013, 02:25 PM
  #20
Started
Simple answer: in Freestyle, you just cruise along and work on having an independent seat. You aren't focused on an engaged posture. In Finesse your whole posture changes because you want your horse's posture to change. That's the simple answer.
     

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