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Pushy clicker trained horse and alternative rewards?

This is a discussion on Pushy clicker trained horse and alternative rewards? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        02-12-2013, 05:51 PM
      #51
    Trained
    That post was not attacking you or CT. I was stating the info I found in my research.

    I don't want to learn how to do CT I want to understand how people who are at the top of their sport apply it to that sport, related to riding esp jumping.

    I will add to this later.
         
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        02-12-2013, 05:51 PM
      #52
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smrobs    
    To be perfectly honest, I'm inclined to believe that the horse in question (the one the OP worked with) is probably bored out of her mind.

    Maybe it's just me, but I've found that the less time you spend just screwing around with the horse, playing games, and the more time you spend giving them something to do, a job, and making them listen to you (not by force/pain/intimidation, but simple pressure and release), the happier they are.
    And more willing, more experienced and, honestly, better broke.
    smrobs, gypsygirl and Muppetgirl like this.
         
        02-12-2013, 05:59 PM
      #53
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wanstrom Horses    
    I'm going to have to agree with Gypsygirl on this one. I'd just like to see a video of someone using the clicker under saddle in a working environment. I'm not saying its wrong, but maybe if I could see it being used practically under saddle, I may understand it better..
    I'm starting my colt from square one this spring (after doing some under-saddle riding last fall and then giving him the winter off). When we get to riding again and he's working solely off my leg from day one, I'll post a video :) Deal?
         
        02-12-2013, 06:01 PM
      #54
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smrobs    
    To be perfectly honest, I'm inclined to believe that the horse in question (the one the OP worked with) is probably bored out of her mind.

    Maybe it's just me, but I've found that the less time you spend just screwing around with the horse, playing games, and the more time you spend giving them something to do, a job, and making them listen to you (not by force/pain/intimidation, but simple pressure and release), the happier they are.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wanstrom Horses    
    And more willing, more experienced and, honestly, better broke.
    Good thing this is what true click trainers do, then - we always have a job for them to do and change it up so they don't get bored!
    PunksTank likes this.
         
        02-12-2013, 06:09 PM
      #55
    Yearling
    Ok, I'd love to see something. I've never had a "bored" horse. Ever. And I've never had to change anything up or make up something for them to do. They get rode hard, everyday, and have a job that tests them mentally and physically. My horses are tired at the end of the day, and that's something they should be.
    smrobs and jillybean19 like this.
         
        02-12-2013, 06:14 PM
      #56
    Yearling
    When I mention changing things up, I'm referring to not asking for the same repetitive task over and over I.e. If you're working on teaching a horse flexion to the right, you wouldn't want to keep making them give to the right over and over and over again for an extended period of time without a break or at least something else to do in between. This applies no matter what method you're using, and clicker trainers and "traditional" trainers can both get caught in this trap. Sometimes clicker trainers can get so caught up with what's going on they don't realize that, even though there's a "reward" involved, the horse REALLY doesn't want to be doing the same repetitive motion over and over again. Of course, traditional trainers that aren't being wise can pull and release a horse's head the same way over and over and over again, and even if the horse makes progress initially, it can be undone by frustration and the horse will quit giving to the pressure and resist it instead.
    PunksTank likes this.
         
        02-12-2013, 08:39 PM
      #57
    Started
    My pony was a classic 'bored out of his mind' trouble making terrible pony when he arrived. He had attacked a professional (traditional) trainer, who was ground driving him - WITH A BIT! My 450 pound pony swung around and trampled her! He got this terrible reputation as a violent pony - but being worked once a week left him bored.
    Clicker training keeps his mind and his body very busy. I recently had to keep him inside as we had a snow storm deeper than he is tall - so I brought him into the aisle of my barn and taught him to kick a football. He started by targetting it with his nose, then pawing it, then eventually kicking it. Now I toss the football and he runs over and kicks it. He LOVES it! Sure you can't win a blue ribbon with that but my pony is freaking happy. He spends 10-20 minutes 3 times a day learning his new skills and spends the rest of the day and night thinking about it. I know he's thinking about it because he's not being naughty and the next time we go back to working on it he's got it totally figured out. Which is why I give him shot segments multiple times a day. :)

    My horses are not bored (unless my life gets busy and I don't have time). But as nothing more than a counter argument - I see many very bored traditionally trained horses as well - they have jobs, their jobs don't engage their minds or make them happy - they just exhaust them. They're not entertained or happy - they're just wiped out - too tired to act up.

    People who don't like clicker training certainly don't need to use it.
    But if you really want to know about it open your mind and try it rather than just making assumptions. Because all famous people don't do something doesn't mean it's not worth doing.
    That being said there are a number of famous riders who do- I've already listed them.

    Now to go to where it was stated "it can't be sued to teach anything useful". In my opinion - EVERYTHING I teach a horse is useful. The 3rd thing I teach every horse is a back up cue - now that I've been filling water with buckets (frozen hose) that cue has been VITAL - running from the faucet to my horse's stall while the next bucket is filling. I need my horse to back up when I'm 4 steps away from their stall guards (so I can duck under) with my hands full of heavy buckets and I need them to do it immediately and completely. So they need to back up 2-3 steps with me just saying a word 4 steps away from them. They do. That is useful to me.
    Clicker training is not a type of riding or style of working with horses - it is a way of teaching. If you want to teach your pony to kick a football you can do that - if you want to teach them to jump you can do that - if you want to teach them to tuck their knees a little better over the jump you can use it for that - if you want him to piaffe or passage or sidepass or flying change you can use CT to teach that! CT is a type of teaching - it can be used for anything you want.

    I believe the reason most people who use CT use it to teach things like tricks and unmounted work is because those things are trained so easily with CT but not so easily with any other training style. It's hard to teach a pony to kick a football without CT. So I think most people who get into CT are looking for trick training - while most people looking into dressage use what's used by other dressage riders (pressure training). But I think anyone who's actually used or tried CT would realize it can easily be used to teach anything - even more 'professional' riding styles.
    jillybean19 likes this.
         
        02-12-2013, 08:57 PM
      #58
    Started
    OK I think I found the answer to all your questions - You want a professional rider using CT to train professional horses who compete in a variety of different specializations? I just found this on youtube after just a 2 minute search - I'm sure there is MUCH more like it.

    This is a woman who uses her horse for flag carrying and reining - and some flag tricks too. As well as her other horse for dressage - competitively. I don't think I could be more impressed with a trainer. Here is a video of a trainer using CT for competitive purposes and riding her horses professionally.
    jillybean19 likes this.
         
        02-12-2013, 10:13 PM
      #59
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PunksTank    
    OK I think I found the answer to all your questions - You want a professional rider using CT to train professional horses who compete in a variety of different specializations? I just found this on youtube after just a 2 minute search - I'm sure there is MUCH more like it.

    This is a woman who uses her horse for flag carrying and reining - and some flag tricks too. As well as her other horse for dressage - competitively. I don't think I could be more impressed with a trainer. Here is a video of a trainer using CT for competitive purposes and riding her horses professionally.
    Click With Horses - Georgia Bruce - Clicker Training - YouTube
    Haha you're way more determined than I to find examples! I'm excited to watch this!!
         
        02-12-2013, 10:29 PM
      #60
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wanstrom Horses    
    Ok, I'd love to see something. I've never had a "bored" horse. Ever. And I've never had to change anything up or make up something for them to do. They get rode hard, everyday, and have a job that tests them mentally and physically. My horses are tired at the end of the day, and that's something they should be.
    Here ya go ;)

    Clicker Training: Challenge Accepted
         

    Tags
    biting, clicker training, natural horsemanship, removal of pressure, treats

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