Resisting Join Up - Page 5

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Resisting Join Up

This is a discussion on Resisting Join Up within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        05-23-2013, 11:11 AM
    Originally Posted by Crossescowgirl    
    This is funny because when I get off my horse I like my horse to stay where I asked him to and not follow me
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    Ground tying and "join up" are two totally different things.
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        05-23-2013, 04:21 PM
    A lot of times there is that one big obstacle that seems to delay everything else. It may even feel like a trust issue between the two of you. Keep at it, get creative and try to explain what you want in different ways until you unlock the language barrier. Kudos for you understanding the importance of this step! Once your horse "gets it" other things will seem to be super easy.
    ansinfamily likes this.
        05-23-2013, 04:31 PM
    I have to disagree about using a square pen instead of a round one, a horse can stop in the corner and easily turn it bum to ya
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    CatrinaB87 likes this.
        05-23-2013, 04:34 PM
    I use my horse for goat tying and even I want him to no that when I get off theres a difference
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        05-23-2013, 05:22 PM
    Originally Posted by Crossescowgirl    
    This is funny because when I get off my horse I like my horse to stay where I asked him to and not follow me
    Posted via Mobile Device
    I have developed sort of "cues" after I get off. If I don't do anything, my horse will just follow me around, if I make it back up a few steps and say "whoa" and walk away, the horse is supposed to stay. And they seem to know that if I loop the rein around their neck and only have it clipped to one side of the bit, they can just wander at will because I'm normally heading for the beer cooler in the branding pen. XD

    And when doing groundwork, I can just hold my hand out and cluck and it normally send em away.
        05-23-2013, 06:02 PM
    Would this be her first time doing join up? Just keep at it until she chooses herself... The first time I put my filly in the round pen to do join up, she gave me all the signs, she locked her ear on me, did smaller circles, put her head down more and licked her lips... but she still only turned and looked to me when I stopped and gave her my back.

    The second time she did the same thing, but came up to me, but didn't follow me...

    The third time I tried, which was yesterday, she didn't give me all the signs, and I mistaked her and she didn't come in or anything, so I pushed her out more, and after about 10-15 mintues or trotting and loping around, she gave me the signs, I stopped, she came up, and she followed me wherever I went.

    Join up isn't just getting her to lock her ear on you, it is looking for ALL these signs:
    1. One ear locking on you
    2. Lowering her head
    3. Licking and Chewing
    4. Making smaller circles

    Once you see these 4 signs, then it means she is trying to come in, and then you can release pressure and give her the choice, if not, push her out more and keep on doing that. After about 3 tries, stop for the day and try again the next day, you may not get it until 10 or 15 tries, but be consistant, and once she chooses to be with you, leave it at that and don't push her to much.
        05-24-2013, 05:11 AM
    Originally Posted by Crossescowgirl    
    I have to disagree about using a square pen instead of a round one, a horse can stop in the corner and easily turn it bum to ya
    Posted via Mobile Device

    That may be considered a threat and a good wallop on the backside will sort it out real quick. Do it right once an you'll never have to do it again. Thatís the whole point of the square yard, a round yard can allow them to just run round, and around, and around, ad nauseum.
        05-24-2013, 11:59 AM
    Green Broke
    My understanding of this teqnique, from reading extensively about it years ago, is this:

    The concept, as far as Monty Roberts says, came from a horses flight response, and the natural reaction to a)run in circles, and b)turn to face the danger after a certain distance. In a wild horse(Monty Roberts did a video where he attempted to 'join up' with a wild horse in the wild, by following it until it chose to be with him) that has never had any bad experiences with people, you can put it in a round pen, initiate flight response with a rope, stick, etc, then the horse keeps going until the set distance(I believe monty Roberts says 1 mile?) when the "turn and face the danger" response kicks in. At this point the horse starts thinking about the person in the middle. If the persons body language is right, this happens:
    1. One ear locking on you
    2. Lowering her head
    3. Licking and Chewing
    then you invite them (with body language) to come towards you. A wild horse usually, with little work, will take the chance to stop moving and accept you as a non threatening leader, as you are communicating in a language the horse understands.

    I have used this on completely wild horses with success. After that application it has little use in my opinion. I tried join up with Romeo, the virtually untouched Clydesdale stallion I halter broke last year. Although he was not halter broke, his limited experience with people was bad. He is naturally submissive and he had almost certainly been squeezed in a chute or flip table to hack off his feet, they tried to use him as a saddle bronc(failure) and who knows what else. He was, and is, very wary and nervous of people, which goes against his calm, quiet disposition. Romeo would not come up to me. He would go, stop, turn and face me, but he had learned people were scary and best stayed away from. He would lick, chew, drop his head, etc. He would even follow, from 20' away. I never got the "instant bond" moment, and to be honest, I don't expect it, with any horse. Just like with people, true bonds take time. Horses that most people work with today have previous experience that hinders the 'join up'.

    The big issue for me with join up is the believe that the results will be the same as monty Roberts portrays, untouched horse runs around, magically comes up to you and voila, instant 'bond'! Its also grossly over used. Many people feel they should do it often, like it some how refreshes the 'bond' and makes a horse trust and respect you, without the work entailed to build a real relationship.

    Round pen work has a purpose. I use it for a couple initial 'respect sessions' with young hrses, halter breaking untouched older horses, introducing new tack and the first couple rides on a colt(or problem horse). Many people use it constantly, which in my experience quickly becomes a crutch for horse and handler.

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