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Rope Halter Training - Hard Time

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  • Heavy unresponsive in rope hackamore

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    06-12-2012, 04:33 PM
  #11
Started
Quote:
The kid analogy I think is backwards though? A child that is taught to mind at home, will mind in public. One that isn't, doesn't.
If you teach a kid to mind at home, with few distractions, but don't keep the same rules and "no means no" mentality in public, they will be disrespectful and disobedient, just like a horse that has one set of rules applied in the round pen but not upheld in the open.
     
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    06-12-2012, 05:05 PM
  #12
Foal
Hi, I agree with this post, he seems to be associating outside with "his" time, and arenas with "your" time..
Sometimes give him his time in the arena as well.. and sometimes play with him outside, whether ground work or ridden..

Also as of the topic of eating grass. Something quite effective is giving him a cue for when he has to stop eating.. he can sometimes eat, but when you ask his attention he has to give it right away..
So for that I use the name (with intonation, then bigger intonation as 2nd warning), then a tap, with movement towards him.. so he does react. With consistency in about 5 minutes when you say his name he'll pick up his head and be ready for your next cue..
On the contrary of most riders I would say to also tell him when he can eat.. so that he doesn't have to take it, since you will give him what he wants as well..
Don't be the bully but the partner..
Consistency and focus is essential in this.

Happy training :)
Ripplewind likes this.
     
    06-13-2012, 03:15 AM
  #13
Trained
I agree with both of you it seems, Blue & Palomine, that the 'child' first needs to learn how to 'behave' 'at home' and do believe it does carry over, but that if 'training' is inconsistent in any conditions, then behaviour won't be reliable there. Horses and kids learn to do what works & learn habitual responses too.
     
    06-15-2012, 05:56 PM
  #14
Foal
It's not about the halter, its the respect that he has for you. He also seems to be easily bored. Switch things up. I would move his forehand, then his hind quarters, back up, sideways... All of these things should be snappy. Not wimpy and in his own time. He just sounds like a dominant horse that needs you to step up your leadership. That is probably the hardest lesson I ever learned with horses, but once I learned it the change in my extremely dominant horse was amazing, now that's some of my favorite students to teach. I have been there and know how crazy the horse can make you. Unconfident horses need you to follow the same thing over and over. Confident horses learn very quickly and get bored easily. You have to think fast for them or they check out (and eat grass, pull you away...).

I disagree with what someone else said about not allowing your horse to eat grass around you. They need to respect you first, but then it should be ok, just on your terms not his. Allow him to make the mistake of eating before you correct as well. Have you ever been about to do something wrong then said "this may not be such a great idea"? Same for a horse. I have a cue when I'm walking my horse and stop. If I want them to eat I lean forward and put my hand down kind of like I'm going to pick the grass. They know that's when they can eat. When riding I lean forward and put some pressure on their neck to put their head down.

One other thing that could help with the grass eating. Walk to a patch of grass and allow your horse to eat. Walk to another, and another... Expand the distance so that your horse knows he will get the opportunity if he just follows your lead. Instead of saying no all the time, say in a moment that I choose. For a horse that just ignores you when you ask them to stop eating I would get them moving each time they ate without permission and didn't allow me to lift their head up. If they lift their head when you ask I wouldn't punish them for doing what you asked even though the origional idea wasn't correct.

I would also make sure the horse understands to move away from the halters pressure on the ground before trying it riding.
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    06-15-2012, 06:14 PM
  #15
Showing
OK, this works. Take your lunge whip with your when you go for a walk with your horse. When you get to the grass, if he makes a nose dive for it, do not pull on the halter but give him a tap on the hip. The whip keep you out of kicking distance. If a tap doesn't get him moving, then try a firmer one. If he circles you that's ok because at least he's moving. Give him 4-6' of lead. When he stops and only if his head remains up, take him to the grass, bend over a little, tug lightly on the lead to invite him to eat. Teach him that when you click or kiss, not pull, his head is to come up as you have signalled him to move his feet, or it will be followed by a tap on the bum. You need to polish your groundwork. Stand about a foot off his shoulder and face it. Lightly pull his nose toward your hip. If he is resistant you will get only an inch or two before he demands his head to be straight. You need to be patient and ask again. Try small intermittent pulls. He doesn't really know what you want but the more you work at this the more he will begin to think it's not so bad and will begin to relax. Don't try to force his head around or hold on to it when you feel the resistance, Try to keep a light touch. When he's not to bad on the near side, try the off side. Most horses initially are very resistant on that side but again, patience will pay off.
     
    06-15-2012, 11:46 PM
  #16
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palomine    
Horse is humoring you in the pen more than respecting you. The behavior outside of the pen shows it has no respect for you.

The kid analogy I think is backwards though? A child that is taught to mind at home, will mind in public. One that isn't, doesn't.

I agree with tap under chin with boot toe when horse ducks head to eat, and secondly, make sure you NEVER let him eat while leading, or just standing around. It is not fair to tell him "okay" one time, or 20, and then all of a sudden it is not okay for horse to eat.

Also, be alert for horse's signals that it is thinking about ducking head. Head just doesn't fall out of nowhere to grass. One ear forward/one back is indication horse is thinking, and usually, that is not a good thing, as it say horse is reading you and if you are paying attention. A certain distance, mentally from you too is a sign, you should be able to feel this, and the horse will take its eyes off of you, to shut you out too.

With a horse like this, that is basically spoiled more or less, I use a chain shank, and give one pop, and then go back to lead rope. But I expect respect from mine, and they aren't allowed to get by with less.

Make sure horse will yield to your cues in pen, while tacking or leading, and also while feeding. I would imagine horse is showing other signs of disrespect too, that you aren't reading as that.
Nah, he does stuff that is disrespectful, too, like walking off while I am adjusting his saddle. I give him a good bump from the bit to make him stop. He used to be AWFUL about walking/cantering off while I would mount him. But I made him work for it and he stopped. He is also very stubborn sometimes. I worked with him for about forty-five minutes today and he did very well. He is softer in the bit now and he didn't refuse once at the jumps. So yeah....I'm working on his respect/stubbornness issue. I'm a new horse owner, so that explains why I have a hard time sometimes, too.
     
    06-15-2012, 11:47 PM
  #17
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by SassaSavvy    
It's not about the halter, its the respect that he has for you. He also seems to be easily bored. Switch things up. I would move his forehand, then his hind quarters, back up, sideways... All of these things should be snappy. Not wimpy and in his own time. He just sounds like a dominant horse that needs you to step up your leadership. That is probably the hardest lesson I ever learned with horses, but once I learned it the change in my extremely dominant horse was amazing, now that's some of my favorite students to teach. I have been there and know how crazy the horse can make you. Unconfident horses need you to follow the same thing over and over. Confident horses learn very quickly and get bored easily. You have to think fast for them or they check out (and eat grass, pull you away...).

I disagree with what someone else said about not allowing your horse to eat grass around you. They need to respect you first, but then it should be ok, just on your terms not his. Allow him to make the mistake of eating before you correct as well. Have you ever been about to do something wrong then said "this may not be such a great idea"? Same for a horse. I have a cue when I'm walking my horse and stop. If I want them to eat I lean forward and put my hand down kind of like I'm going to pick the grass. They know that's when they can eat. When riding I lean forward and put some pressure on their neck to put their head down.

One other thing that could help with the grass eating. Walk to a patch of grass and allow your horse to eat. Walk to another, and another... Expand the distance so that your horse knows he will get the opportunity if he just follows your lead. Instead of saying no all the time, say in a moment that I choose. For a horse that just ignores you when you ask them to stop eating I would get them moving each time they ate without permission and didn't allow me to lift their head up. If they lift their head when you ask I wouldn't punish them for doing what you asked even though the origional idea wasn't correct.

I would also make sure the horse understands to move away from the halters pressure on the ground before trying it riding.
Yeah, he gets bored/distracted worse than a kid with ADHD.
     
    06-16-2012, 12:18 AM
  #18
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripplewind    
Nah, he does stuff that is disrespectful, too, like walking off while I am adjusting his saddle. I give him a good bump from the bit to make him stop. He used to be AWFUL about walking/cantering off while I would mount him. But I made him work for it and he stopped.
Why do you feel the need to lable that 'disrespect'? I do think it sounds like you have little respect *for eachother* but example above may be nothing at all to do with that. Eg. It doesn't sound like you've bothered to teach & reinforce the Right behaviour, only punish the Wrong. Who's to say anyone has ever bothered to teach him the Right behaviour either? While I do feel that punishment has a place in training & sometimes quite strong punishment may be called upon, I don't believe it's a good idea to punish a horse for something that they haven't been taught in the first place, unless it's a safety 'emergency' type issue. I also don't think it's a good idea to inflict pain on the horse by giving 'good' or otherwise 'bumps' on a bit.

Quote:
He is also very stubborn sometimes. I worked with him for about forty-five minutes today and he did very well. He is softer in the bit now and he didn't refuse once at the jumps. So yeah....I'm working on his respect/stubbornness issue.
How are you working on it? Was working him for 45 minutes something to do with 'respect/stubbornness'? If so, what exactly did you do/ask/teach?

'Stubbornness' comes about due to horses learning what works for them & what doesn't. In order to teach the horse to 'stubbornly' perform the behaviour *you* desire of him, you need to make sure it works for him. Eg. Positive reinforcement along with the negative reinforcement. For eg. If he were rewarded for standing still for saddling/mounting, he'd soon get 'stubborn' about that. Making the walking away behaviour uncomfortable for him(rather than waiting until he's left & then punishing), while ensuring that discomfort is relieved *the instant* he thinks about stopping will also help him learn.
Ripplewind likes this.
     
    07-03-2012, 10:52 PM
  #19
Weanling
^^^ I do reinforce positive behavior, like giving him pats or letting him eat when I way so or letting him chill out after I mount and flex him. I also give him about ten minutes in the arena to himself. I take off his bridle and let him do whatever while we both take a breather. Sometimes I join up in the arena. He does surprisingly well for there being so much distance between us in the arena.

*Sigh* It's work, sure. But he's been getting a lot better. He hardly ever walks off when I mount, he is getting softer in the bit. Now I need to teach myself to use my SEAT more often than relying on my hands. I'll do that next time I see him (tomorrow) because I've been cleaning his tack today and I want to give the oil some time to set in before I use it again.
     
    07-03-2012, 11:01 PM
  #20
Weanling
HOWEVER, I don't let him get away with anything when we're working. If he becomes pushy, unresponsive, or stubborn, he works for it. When I get the right response, he gets a pat, and a few seconds to blow out before we go back to work. I don't baby him. I can't really. He is pasture boarded, and if I freak out over every little scratch, I'd go nuts! I rarely give him treats (hay, apples, carrots). He listens to ME when I ask for his attention. It's really annoying when I'm riding and my friends/random little kids lean over the rails and try to get him to stop so they can pet him and give him kissies....T_T Luckily, my boyfriend and little sister don't do that. My boyfriend hangs out in the arena and is always so encouraging.
     

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riding halter, rope halter, training advice

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