The Simple Foundations Behind EVERY NH Method (including matching CA and PP) - Page 3
   

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The Simple Foundations Behind EVERY NH Method (including matching CA and PP)

This is a discussion on The Simple Foundations Behind EVERY NH Method (including matching CA and PP) within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Parelli clover leaf pattern diagram

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    07-05-2011, 10:57 AM
  #21
Weanling
Sticky

I have submitted a suggestion that this thread be stickied. I am copying it below. If any others here feel this information should remain on the first screen available to all visitors, rather than slide down the list to obscurity, then please let the Moderators know.

Thanks

Quote:
Dear Spastic Dove

Thank you very much, I would like to suggest a sticky for a thread in the Natural Horsemanship section

The Simple Foundations Behind EVERY NH Method (including matching CA and PP)

The two qualifiers I see in your reply are:

Common questions
Helpful advice

I believe this thread encompasses both. I joined this forum nearly a year ago, after viewing it anyomously for some months prior. Definitely 'What is NH' is the most common question, and the replies heretofore have primarily been confusing arguements.

This post is very clear and addresses questions whether they are about a particular promoter, or the general term: Natural Horsemanship.

It is helpful by laying out the differences and similarities in the terms usued by the marketers who are currently in the 'limelight'. Which I feel is how the many people posting the 'What is NH' questions have come to hear about it. So it is very relavent.

There are several positive replies, and an example of directly helping a person with 2 horses that are each accustomed to the cues and signals of the 2 main programs. That was very helpful, to the poster and to others I'm sure.

I mentioned suggesting or nominating the thread for a sticky in a reply, and my nomination was pretty much seconded by another poster who said something like - gets my vote.

Thank you again for your time, courtesy and attention. Please bring this to the table and let me know the outcome.

Thank you
Ann

Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/using-hors...#ixzz1RF6kMoin
     
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    07-12-2011, 12:31 PM
  #22
Yearling
Subscribing, will come back to this later :P
     
    08-15-2011, 03:51 PM
  #23
Weanling
I am curious about the Patterns material, never seen it. I am pretty much stuck at home with Elwood's 24/7 occupation of being companion to a mare who is not sound to ride.

So I do a lot of what I think is pattern work, I have a book 101 Arena Exercises by Cherry Hill, and 11 years of watching 4-H equitation and horsemanship patterns, and make up my own.

The last 2 years my daughter was in 4-H there was a new class described in the rule book called Patterns, it looked very interesting and beneficial but was not added to the classes of any shows/fairs we attended.

It had three course patterns laid out, and beginner-intermediate-advanced ways to ride each of the 3 courses. Now I cannot find my old rule book to look them up again.

Could/would you please tell me little about the Patterns program please.
     
    08-15-2011, 04:00 PM
  #24
Doe
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by anndankev    
I am curious about the Patterns material, never seen it. I am pretty much stuck at home with Elwood's 24/7 occupation of being companion to a mare who is not sound to ride.

So I do a lot of what I think is pattern work, I have a book 101 Arena Exercises by Cherry Hill, and 11 years of watching 4-H equitation and horsemanship patterns, and make up my own.

The last 2 years my daughter was in 4-H there was a new class described in the rule book called Patterns, it looked very interesting and beneficial but was not added to the classes of any shows/fairs we attended.

It had three course patterns laid out, and beginner-intermediate-advanced ways to ride each of the 3 courses. Now I cannot find my old rule book to look them up again.

Could/would you please tell me little about the Patterns program please.
Hi Anndankev

Just to clarify are you referring to the Parelli Patterns? (there's four programs)

Regards
Doe
     
    08-15-2011, 04:52 PM
  #25
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doe    
Hi Anndankev

Just to clarify are you referring to the Parelli Patterns? (there's four programs)

Regards
Doe

Yes, that is what I was thinking. Are there 4 parts to it?

And specifically wondered if it was at all similiar to the Cherry Hill book. Which diagrams arena patterns to ride, and has them in a sort of progressive order.

So now I'm guessing the Parelli Patterns is not laid out like that all. What is it?

Thanks,
Ann
     
    08-15-2011, 06:30 PM
  #26
Doe
Weanling
Hi Ann.

Parelli Patterns were released at the Uk shows in roughly 2007/2008. They seemed to be an attempt to give some direction as a common problem amongst PP followers was that they got stuck between levels and were looking for something to do.

It seems that they weren't received overly well and ultimately PP subsequently released new versions of the levels and extended them.

There are 4 'pattern' packs. Online ( as in work on the 12ft, 22 ft etc lines not the Internet lol) Liberty, Freestyle and Finesse.

Basically they each offer several pattern based exercises, and you repeat the exercises in different ways depending on your level with your horse.

So for examples;

Online - work around cones. One pattern is a figure 8 around two cones. Another is like a slalom around several cones. At level 1 it's on a short line and almost leading them. At higher levels you stand in the centre and work the horse from a 22 foot line around the cones. The idea is working on push and draw.

Freestyle (ridden) might include patterns that are often used in NH like the clover leaf or again figure 8s around cones, or follow the rail. Again different levels will ask for more demanding ways of doing the same thing.

Hope this helps.
     
    08-16-2011, 03:52 AM
  #27
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doe    
No absolutely not. His work could not be any more different than it is. Similarly I would not include the likes of Carolyn Resnick or Alexander Nevzorov, Linda Tellington and Robyn or Peggy Cummings. None have any correlation with these NH types.

Stacy Westfall, Monty Roberts, Gawani Pony Boy etc etc would all fall into this category though. Different methods in some areas but basically the same 3 principles as the basis of all their training.

Coming back to Hempfling he works from a completely different perspective, and his goals are totally different also. His work is much less marketable as it's not a step by step system as such. Every horse person would do it a little differently as it's about your presence as much as anything. It's also not just about horses but few people will take the time to really get it, and if you don't get it then you will get hurt, so it's not something you can play at. But that is also why it is so much more effective. To me it is real horsemanship.

I am hoping to work with him again later this year. I could literally write a whole book myself on this way of working, so I'll stop now!! Lol
I also enjoyed Doe's and succinct break down of NH horse methods. I think the only thing that I have to disagree with is the statement (now in bold) in the above post. I have to disagree from the perspective that I had never really heard a lot about Klaus Hempfling. So I spent about three very interesting hours googling the man ( much to the disgust of my husband). I finished up with a burning desire to buy his book Dancing with horses, I was nearly moved to tears by some of his video demonstrations handling difficult stallions.

And yet at the end of the day I would still lump him in with PP, CA and Monty. He is still a horseman capitalizing on punters desire to have the perfect relationship with their horse. At the end of the day he is still extracting money from people via DVD box sets and books.

Doe said: Coming back to Hempfling he works from a completely different perspective, and his goals are totally different also. His work is much less marketable as it's not a step by step system as such.

Nevertheless that isn't stopping him from getting on the marketing gravy train.
     
    08-16-2011, 04:23 AM
  #28
Foal
Doe, do you know anything about Nevzorov? I saw him riding on youtube, I visited his website and know that he doesn't wear anything on horse's head and that's all. I have never found anything about training method, just saw some results.
     
    08-16-2011, 04:50 AM
  #29
Doe
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwigirl    
I also enjoyed Doe's and succinct break down of NH horse methods. I think the only thing that I have to disagree with is the statement (now in bold) in the above post. I have to disagree from the perspective that I had never really heard a lot about Klaus Hempfling. So I spent about three very interesting hours googling the man ( much to the disgust of my husband). I finished up with a burning desire to buy his book Dancing with horses, I was nearly moved to tears by some of his video demonstrations handling difficult stallions.

And yet at the end of the day I would still lump him in with PP, CA and Monty. He is still a horseman capitalizing on punters desire to have the perfect relationship with their horse. At the end of the day he is still extracting money from people via DVD box sets and books.

Doe said: Coming back to Hempfling he works from a completely different perspective, and his goals are totally different also. His work is much less marketable as it's not a step by step system as such.

Nevertheless that isn't stopping him from getting on the marketing gravy train.
Kiwigirl

That's a fair point. Yes he does sell books (2 currently print) as do many clinicians. I would not however compare for example Mark Rashid with the marketing machine of Parelli. Books, DVD's, Savvy Club, (gold, silver and bronze versions), their own saddles and tack etc etc. As I said fair point though I see your perspective.

Anyway that aside my comment was in relation to how he approaches the horse and what his intentions are and goals in working with the horse. These are completely different from the assumptions and attitude underlying CA or PPs work.

Incidentally glad you enjoyed what you saw.
     
    08-16-2011, 05:12 AM
  #30
Doe
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by henia    
Doe, do you know anything about Nevzorov? I saw him riding on youtube, I visited his website and know that he doesn't wear anything on horse's head and that's all. I have never found anything about training method, just saw some results.
Hoo Hoo Alexander Nevzorov. Yes indeed. Now there's a pill that's very hard for many people to swallow. Eccentric is an understatement. Also very very commonly misunderstood. Simply because he approaches everything in a way that appears very clandestine. (perhaps its a Russian, ex-military, ex-politician kinda thing )

He used to ride with a bit and spurs etc like any dressage rider.Then he moved to riding brideless as you have seen in the videos, but only when the horse can maintain collection to support the rider. Now he has moved away from riding altogether,and if you follow NHE (Nevzorov Haute Ecole) then you have to agree not to ride your horse either. This is because they are heavily involved (along with his wife and a few other members) in researching the physical impact on the horse. Due to their findings they state that it is impossible to ride a horse without causing pain and permanent damage. They are opposed (actively through magazines and videos) to any equine sports, and horses must not be shod.

Their aim is to continue to develop the horse physically without a rider and also look to its mental development (such as recognising Latin).

Their approach is very challenging, and requires huge patience. Its certainly not negative reinforcement, but its not simple positive reinforcement based either. For example early exercises will include asking the horse to pick up a brush and pass it to you or suchlike (though it will be working with what the horse offers) to establish communication. This cannot be done in the usual clicker type way however, that is notthe point of it. Then you can proceeed to various stretches, such as the trestle etc. These are how they develop the communication and strength to move to the levade, piaffe etc. from the ground.

In terms of a body many see it as clandestine. He does have a magazine etc but otherwise theres not much he sells. To be part of the NHE you can join a forum but then you have to be invited to the 'school'. Invitation is following demonstration of the principles with your horses over time. There are no costs involved.

Probably the easiest way to get a handle on it is to read an ebook by one of his representatives - Michael Bevilacqua. Its called 'Beyond the Dream Horse' A Revealing Perspective on Attaining a true Relationship. He's canadian and came from a background of trying the other NH methods such as roundpenning etc. So it describes how he arrived where he has. Its a pleasant read.

Hope this helps.
     

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