So I just watched the Parelli Level One DVD... - Page 2

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So I just watched the Parelli Level One DVD...

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    11-13-2010, 09:56 PM
If you want, check out Carlos Tabernaberri and Whispering Acres (i think that's it). I could never really understand Parelli's way, but I got what Carlos was saying.
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    11-14-2010, 09:27 PM
I did parelli with my horse for a little while and went to two of his demos here in KC. I love Linda. I really think they have some good points, but I don't think that it's good for all horses. I did it for about a year with my horse and actually got him to flat foot walk which in the three years i'd been working with him couldn't acomplish. He is terrified of whips after being abused with them when younger. So I was like right, you want me to do what with this carrot stick??? He has no problem on the ground with the carrot stick, in saddle different story.

Do you know what video you watched? At the clinics we watched it was mostly linda doing the demo, and pat would just talk...

I did an experiement with my horse with the whip and carrot stick, and someone was making fun of me for using the carrot stick, and this was after a year of work, and showed them what I was doing than when and got a whip and tried to do the same stuff, and my horse was very uneasy and upset by me trying to use the whip. They still didn't understand, but I thought he would be ok with the whip after all that, but he wasn't.

I mean if I had a younger horse or starting a horse I would probably use parelli to just get them comfortable and stuff I dunno. My horse seems a lot calmer and we have a totally different bond. So i'm kind of in the middle.
    11-14-2010, 09:50 PM
Green Broke
The friend who lent me the DVD (it's the Level One DVD from the series) came out and helped me tonight because I was having trouble understanding some things, and also I CAN understand the need for a carrot stick, my whip simply didn't work right now - too long and too flexible to mimic the movements. It's tricky when you're trying to remember how to do something exactly!

It was interesting! I definitely want to try a little more of it with my horses, just for something to do on the ground. My friend has the carrot stick so I don't have to invest any money, so why not? Jynxy's ground manners have been pretty rough since I got her because you can practically beat her and she won't respond, so I'm hoping the escalation of force will help. She seemed to slightly grasp it tonight! Still a little unsure, but I feel I can't properly judge it without having tried it, so I'm going to give it a shot!
    11-15-2010, 02:21 AM
Honestly if your horse is afraid of your tools (previously abused with them or not), you aren't spending enough time in the desensitization arena...a horse that works with a handystick, will easily be able to work with a whip and vice just may mean a bit more "homework" for you. Some horses are just more reactive too, to certain things, so that does not mean he's been abused.

In regard to the OP, I haven't watched any of his full length vids, but some of the ones I have seen seem to lend to what you are talking about...I think sometimes it's the horse trying to figure it out, and other times it may be that he does too much sensitizing and not enough desensitizing. You HAVE to balance the two, although some horses will need more in either dept. But no, I don't think a horse should be visually 'fearful' of the tools, or the method one is using. And I don't really think ANY one trainer has the answer for every horse...although I would personally send a problem horse to Clinton Anderson over most 'well known' trainers, as I have seen him in person so many times, and the horses are 180 degree turn around different by the end of the time he has with them.

I do think Parelli is good for more of the 'green' people out there, but I find his methods a bit confusing at times. I had a friend one time, try to do his 'circle' game with a horse I had at the this horse would go with a point, and stop and turn with a subtle change in body position...when she did that, he was fine, but I could clearly see his confusion, when she just stood there, passing the lead behind her back, and as he was going around and when he was behind her, she would pull the line in...he was like "what?". He was used to giving his handler "two eyes", and she wasn't in a position to allow him to do that, so he kept going, and they both got flustered!
    11-15-2010, 02:36 AM
Green Broke
I think that's the only problem I have with some of the methodology, is that it involves either re-training your horse from things like lunging or training them a particular way to begin with. My horses have been drilled on a lunge that whoa means stop where you are, do not turn and look at me and do not walk over to me. So now I have to question if I want to go this Parelli route and completely re-school my horses? Though Jynx doesn't lunge for crap anyway, so I was hoping this would soften her up and get her listening more.

I think what bugs me is that I like the IDEA of Parelli, I like the exercises, but for example, cruising their website I noted it says "without force or punishment." Well, that's a load of hogwash! Yes you're using escalation, but that means if you're asking for a horse to back up by tapping it with your carrot stick, you escalate to the point of HITTING them with it until they submit to the pressure. How is that NOT force? You can't technically FORCE a 1200lb animal to do anything it doesn't want to do. I just don't understand why they have to pretend this NH stuff is something it isn't - boasting about a "willing" partner. They're not willing, they LEARN to be willing, just like in any other training method. If a horse wasn't willing to be ridden, it wouldn't be ridden!

So I think I've just come to realize that I like the Parelli WAY, I just dislike the Parelli attitude that somehow whacking your horse with a stick until he listens is ANY different then a dozen other non-NH methods out there.
    11-15-2010, 02:44 AM
I hear you...I was just reading a thing on the Road to the Horse website, and it actually coins Parelli as the 'coiner' of the NH "thing", there were MANY more before him! Hahahaha!

I actually prefer teaching a horse to turn and give me two eyes when lunging, or round's a 'respect' thing, and gives me more 'power' over the direction change, or lack of, because he's looking at me, and can see my signals clearly, and because he's not facing 'foward' there is no chance of him simply running the lead rope through my hands to get away. I don't have to shift my own position other than very slightly to change from driveline to infront of it, and changing lead hands, and pointing in the new direction.

I have never had a horse "run me over" because of the way that I train then to turn into the circle, but again, I think that's because they have been taught to respect my space before we get to lunging. Until the horse will back willingly out of your space and stay there, he shouldn't be lunging, because that's just asking him to come in and take you down!
    11-15-2010, 02:45 AM
Originally Posted by MacabreMikolaj    
I can do virtually everything he did with that horse with my own horses.

Isn't that the point?

I don't really "do" Parelli, but I have access to the online video-vault thing and I've watched several of the videos. I liked and understood what I saw, even though it was only "previews" (which might be the reason I liked it).

My farrier and I discussed Parelli one day when he was trimming up a horse's hooves. He got so heated talking about him and he set his rasp down, stood up, and was waving his arms (poor mare didn't appreciate that too much). He said Parelli just takes TOO long to do things with a horse that shouldn't be so difficult. Now my farrier is a good trainer and has turned several horses into well-trained ones. But I think he's looking at it from the perspective of someone who is time-limited... He says "30 days to make a good horse, 60 days to make a great horse." Eh, can't say I agree with that, but he IS a pretty good trainer, so...

Anyway - I am not time limited with my horse, and I find doing little Parelli things to be fun. Sure, it took me a whole day to teach him to do something small, but it was fun for me (and probably the horse too). I also like using the carrot stick because it's not as flimsy as a buggy whip. I use a rope halter too, but that's personal preference (all these Parelli things belong to a friend of mine).
    11-15-2010, 02:53 AM
Green Broke

Mom2pride - for sure, everyone teaches different! I've always lunged in a bridle, so a change of direction involves me having to gather my rope and walk to my horse to switch the line, so I guess that's why I always trained them to stand motionless after whoa? For change of direction on a halter, I gather my line, give a slight tug which is their cue to turn and face me for further direction. I was taught how to lunge the "pony club" way, long before I knew ANYTHING about NH or respect, it was always just a tool for exercise!

Snookeys - See and this is the only reason I'm giving it a try. My Arab mare is off for the winter with a leg injury, so I was hoping to do some groundwork with her as her manners have gone to hell with the recent layups. My friend is into it, so I figured why not give it a try! My 3 year old filly could definitely use the help on her ground manners as well. But yeah, it's SUPER confusing to learn things that halfway through I go "Oh this? We already sort of do this, just different." Like, my friend was surprised when we breezed through the Friendly Game and the Porcupine Game but being touched all over and giving to pressure are the FIRST components of my training program! But trying to remember where to hold the rope and how to hold the stick is like "GAH, WHY DON'T I JUST SAY OVER AND POKE HER AND SHE DOES THE SAME THING!!!!" I kept dropping the stick and getting tangled in that rope, I swear it's more about ME learning then the horse!
    11-15-2010, 03:16 AM
I think what is important in ground work is HOW horse does things, not what he does. Does he back up really lifting his feet, soft through his body and watching for the next cue? Or does he drag his front feet and move with resistance.? Which kind of backup would you like to RIDE?

Does your horse move forward in the round pen promptly when you signal forward, and is he really leaping energetically into forward? Or is he just moveing the tiniest bit forward , ears pinned and still thinking NO.? Which kind of forward do you want to ride when you are in the saddle?
When you lunge him and you ask him to stop, does he whip into a boardy stop and completely lose all impulsion and just "fall" out? Or does he transtion downward through a step of trot, then a step of walk and come to a balanced , calm stop? Which sort of stop do you want to ride?
You shoulod lunge for the horse that you want to ride. That means that having a set program may or may not help you because you might be dealing with different problems each day, depending on where your horse is mentally. That's what I find to be the problem with Parelli, it isn't flexible for that sort of need to be flexible. And, it isn't about getting him to do each "game", It's about HOW he is feeling when he does these things. Is that the kind of mind of the horse you want to be mounted on?
    11-15-2010, 02:06 PM
Actually mom2pride i've spent the last 3 years working with my horse with the whip, and I guess is should say riding crop, because the lung whip he has no problems with. I spent a year with a parelli certified instructor trying to get him over this fear. I myself have never hit, tapped, came at him nothing with a riding crop. My horse for a saddlebred is pretty bomb proof, except the whip. Which I will explain why when I first bought him a whip was suggested was because he liked to stop in the middle of the rail while riding and not go anywhere. So I usually could just turn him, or back him to get him going forward again, well someone else got on him and he did it and they laced him across the butt, and he went straight up in the air, and the people told me I had to buy him or they were sending him to auction.

I have watched all the old level 1 and level 2 videos, and I really think that you can't just watch the video and go out and try to do the things in the video. I board at a parelli/NH barn and it actually drives me crazy. I love my friends that do NH, but they think that is the only way to train a horse. I actually got reemed inside and out the other day by a non-boarder, who does NH for using draw reins on my horse. I used to love taking NH lessons, but my horse is so high strung we would be in a lesson for 20 mins and have to get off. So I took lessons with my friends horse and we had a blast!! I also got banned from trail rides w/same woman that reemed me because I didn't play all 7 games with my horse before I got on him. UHHH... he is 19 and I can tell when I need to "circle game" him and when I don't.

MacabreMikolaj you can buy super cheap "carrot sticks" and rope halters if you decided this is something you really like. It's good you have someone to help you, cause there are a ton of different ways to ask your horse to do something, and I found it nice that I had that cause like the new parelli way wouldn't work, but the old way to ask did.

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