Spinoff: LP's version of "Horse-man-ship." - Page 3
   

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Spinoff: LP's version of "Horse-man-ship."

This is a discussion on Spinoff: LP's version of "Horse-man-ship." within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        03-04-2010, 03:10 AM
      #21
    Green Broke
    Yes, but when he offers to give her even the slightest of space, she should allow some release, you see absolutely none in this video, how is he supposed to learn when he is not let known when he is doing what she wants?
         
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        03-04-2010, 04:28 AM
      #22
    Weanling
    She does give a 'release' she goes back to phase 1.
         
        03-04-2010, 04:49 AM
      #23
    Trained
    I gotta disagree with you on this one, Kevin. I didn't just see disengaging of the hindquarters - I saw driving from the hindquarters, and then when he complied by moving forward, she hauled his face back to her. Hey, i've done the whopping on the ass and the hauling on the face, but generally not together :]

    I just didn't like what I saw - To me it seemed contradictory. I don't think she was 'abusive' or anything of that sort - I just don't think it was very productive.
         
        03-04-2010, 07:04 AM
      #24
    Showing
    What we all saw was what the person who pieced that video together wanted us to see, much like a PITA propaganda video. We saw bits and pieces portrayed in a way to make her look like a hypocrite.

    I'm not a fan of the Parelli machine but what is fair is fair and that video was meant to inflame.
         
        03-04-2010, 09:14 AM
      #25
    Weanling
    I'm not a fan of parelli at all, but I do agree that you must do whatever needs to be done in order to protect your space. I know a horse very similar to this one, I had to use quite a bit of pressure with the horse, but I'm pretty sure I didn't look quite as much like a flying monkey as Linda does. I started simple, not wanting anything to do with the horse, but demanding that my space was mainted. I got in the horses face quite a few times once they came in my space, but once the mare was out, all was quiet.

    The people at the barn that I was at were horrified by what I had to do (yes, the same people scared to death of the horse). I simply told them that if everyone was consistent with this horse, it would never get to that point where I had to use that pressure. I never chased, never attacked, never even pushed, simply defended.

    Some saw a confused horse, some saw a pushy horse, I saw an insecure horse that was terrified in his own skin because he had no solid herd stucture or consistent leadership through a person. Did he lack respect for people? Yes, but I'm guessing that no one ever gave him a reason to respect them.

    I can't stand the Parelli program, but I wouldn't hold this video against them, I've seen more abusive videos just through their crappy riding! She definitely lacked timing, grace, and calmness, but I've been around enough horses like that to understand that if you aren't standing up for yourself, you will get hurt. As far as the owner in the background, it was probably their fault that the horse got like that in the first place.

    This video was meant to inflame, I know through experience that to work with extreme aggressive/invasive horses, it can't always be butterflies and roses. I would expect better timing out of a professional, but the track she was on wouldn't put me in an uproar.
         
        03-04-2010, 12:43 PM
      #26
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Honeysuga    
    Yes, but when he offers to give her even the slightest of space, she should allow some release, you see absolutely none in this video, how is he supposed to learn when he is not let known when he is doing what she wants?
    Exactly - her timing sucks.

    There is no reward when he does the right thing, and she is giving the horse no clues about exactly what she wants him to be doing.

    He stands still, she whacks him. He steps back, she whacks him. He moves away, she whacks him. He steps toward her, she whacks him. There is no release, there is no reward. At several points, she is the aggressor rather than "protecting her space."

    It's bad enough LP is doing this, but this is the material they are marketing as a training program that anyone can do.

    Truly pathetic.
         
        03-04-2010, 12:55 PM
      #27
    Foal
    My opinion- the lady in the video is an idiot and the guy letting her touch his horse isn't much better.. I would not let her on my property let alone near one of my horses.. just my opinion..
         
        03-04-2010, 01:22 PM
      #28
    Weanling
    I watched Buck Brannaman deal with a horse almost exactly like this one. Huge difference: first, he never took a backward step. Also, when he jerked the rope, there wasn't any "echo"-like bump or wave-- I guess that's why they called him a good rope man? Also, after the initial out-of-my-space lessons (about 3 times) he concentrated on pushing the horse away from him, using the rope to sting. His timing was on-the-dot. It wasn't always so pleasant to watch, but certainly he never lost the horse's attention. I think LP knows what she wants, but she's just not there yet.
         
        03-04-2010, 03:36 PM
      #29
    Trained
    The thing is she turned her back to the horse several times. To me that means that you want the horse to come to you. That is what it would mean in the wild. At one point her back was to the horse she had her arms up and the horse was just following her. She just kept doing it.

    Then she asked the horse to move away by slapping at the horses face. When the horse moved its face away she yanked on the rope.

    Just seems off to me. Would be interesting to see the entire video to see exactly what the horse was doing before she grabbed the rope.
         
        03-04-2010, 03:56 PM
      #30
    Green Broke
    I agree I would love to see the entire video and be able to see"AHH, now I see what she was doing", but I know that is not going to be the way it happens. I have watched LP many a time on RFD giving "lessons" 95% of them are contradictory and the horse and owner end up following her directions in a confused and unhappy manner while she sits on a fence in her cute little PP outfit and barks orders.... Most of them I just sit there and watch with my eyebrows raised wondering what the heck she is talking about and what she is trying to accomplish.

    I am not being unfair. IMO, from what I have seen of her this is an accurate portrayal of her work attitude and skill with horses. Riding on Pats coat tails indeed.
         

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