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Think twice

This is a discussion on Think twice within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        01-29-2013, 02:46 AM
      #21
    Green Broke
    Werdna, working a horse into the ground before someone tries it is the oldest trick in the book when selling horses. I'd have walked away when I saw it dripping as it is very clear that the horse has issues.
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        01-29-2013, 02:56 AM
      #22
    Started
    Well, I certainly thought the OP was a novice trying to figure out what to do, not a pro. : ) Maybe we need to be asking her for advice! At least we know you can't always trust what a seller tells us. Sometimes we get little surprises!

    Time for me to get a life and start by going to bed.
         
        01-29-2013, 09:34 AM
      #23
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dustbunny    
    Well, I certainly thought the OP was a novice trying to figure out what to do, not a pro. : ) Maybe we need to be asking her for advice! At least we know you can't always trust what a seller tells us. Sometimes we get little surprises!

    Time for me to get a life and start by going to bed.
    I'm not going to be asking advice from a 'trainer' who seems to have had the wool pulled over their eyes in a pretty big way... Do we all learn things from each other? Yes. I'm not cocky enough to say I do all my own evaluations on horses I'm going to buy- many knowledgeable horse people will get an opinion (four eyes are better than two, and can alert you to 'buyers blindness') from at least one other horse person before they purchase a 1000 pound money-eating animal.... However, I've never had problems recognizing when the crap was worked out of the horse, etc. Situations like this frustrate me because it seems like people usually get hurt, and the horse is blamed. That doesn't excuse the sellers behavior, but I sure do my hw and take what they say with a grain of salt if I don't know them
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        01-30-2013, 12:09 AM
      #24
    Yearling
    Honestly, I think nearly everyone who's posted misread the OP's message... Allow me to reinterpret how I read this?

    I believe in traing a horse with natural horsemanship but you can never trust what some people have done with a horse. I am experienced with horses and use natural horsemanship, and unfortunately there are a lof of people that screw it up.

    I bought a mare not to long ago and the owner said she had been taught with natural horsemanship and was well trained but when I rode her, she had no brakes and would try to take off with me.I looked at a mare and was able to determine, from my experience, that the owner didn't do what he'd been claiming to do. There was a large discrepancy between what the owner said and how the horse behaved. However, even with these issues, I decided to buy her anyway.

    It also took me an hour just to get her ready to ride, she was horrifide of the saddle and the bridle. She is also horrifide of water and people. When we bought her she had scars all over her body and she was so skinny.Not only did the owner fail at using natural horsemanship properly, but really screwed this horse up. I had to work with her a lot to fix her issues and had the experience to do so.

    I don't blame natural horsemanship at all but think twice about the horses education and be weary for the first ride, just in case the horse isn't as well educated as the owner thinks. So, just as an example, though an owner may SAY the horse was trained to a certain level or in a certain way, you can't always believe what an owner says. In some cases, this may not be because the owner may not be aware of (or choose to lie about) what they have (or haven't) actually achieved with the horse.

    Ultimately, everyone else posting is all saying the same thing as the OP: Don't take an owner at their word - make sure you check the horse out yourself. As many have said, failing to do so is a pretty novice mistake - though, credit to the OP, it's not uncommon for a novice to buy a horse trusting what the seller says. Trust me, I know a lot of parents that go get horse lessons for their kid and buy whatever horse a seller says is a good fit, not realizing how much trouble they're getting themselves into. However, most of those people aren't going to be on this forum. Oh well, it can't hurt to throw caution to the wind for others anyway!
         
        01-30-2013, 10:22 PM
      #25
    Weanling
    Very interesting how differently this is taken by different people. I think we all agree to check out a horse as thoroughly as possible before purchase. Some circumstances let you do a good check, others like an auction, you are pretty much on your own, To not believe everything we are told. Even if the seller isn't trying to lie to you deliberately, they are trying to sell the horse. They are going to present it in a favorable way and sort of skip over the bad parts. There might be a few circumstances where I might buy a horse the owner won't ride, but it would be rare. That is usually a real red flag to a problem horse.
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        01-31-2013, 12:07 PM
      #26
    Weanling
    I definitely agree that I would not "trust" this OP as a trainer, given the seemingly novice mistakes. It is important to remember that, while you may be assisting a trainer in lessons to develop a horse, that is COMPLETELY different than going out on your own and calling yourself a trainer. Not saying that is the case here, but... with the complaints, it seems to be one potential scenario.

    Before buying my own horse, I made it a point to look at many. I requested the owners leave the horses in the paddocks untacked - wanted to see them be caught, saddled, etc. - all from the beginning. The horse I ended up buying, the owner had saddled when I pulled up. That indicated a bit of a behavioral issue, potentially... but, she has turned out to be a pretty awesome horse. She bolted a few times when I first had her, but that was likely a combo of operator error and longstanding behavior issues - she just has a big motor and likes any opportunity to go for a run, lol. As with any horse who was trained by someone else, there have been miscommunications with my horse, but I would never fault the seller for things I 'overlooked" upon inspection - nor would I say whether or not they did or didn't use a certain training method with the horse. Their understanding of a training method may be different from my own, and they may have used certain bits and pieces of it, while I may have focused on other bits and pieces...

    Hope you and your new horse learn each other! Even though you claim to be a trainer, I hope you consider having a "more experienced" equestrian observe your work with her, so maybe you can get an unbiased opinion and help with some direction for you two :)
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        02-01-2013, 05:15 PM
      #27
    Foal
    First post. Hi everyone.
    I never believe what a seller will say about a horse. This is because 1. They could be lying. 2. They could be deluded. 3. They are describing the horse through their own filters and what they want to believe rather than the actual truth.
    In my experience most people fit into the above category. I have found the best thing that tells me about the horse is the horse. With the benefit of hindsight I would say to any novice to make sure you take a good horseman/horsewoman with you who knows your own tendencies and capabilities, and have a neutral, balanced view on the horse.
    A horse is not it's story. I don't like it when stock standard phrases are hung upon a horse be them good or bad, the horse is then expected to live up to the label. Some examples 'good as gold', 'this horse has no dirt/is dirty' 'quiet', 'fine' 'bomb proof' (this is a favourite here in NZ as a person who works with feral horses that run on an army firing range, believe me any horse can be blown up!)
    I realise these terms might help me orient on how the seller sees or describes the horse, but I don't ever buy it as truth. A horse is a horse. I believe the best beginner's horse can still get a fright one day and act like a horse, and that the worst bronc can still be tamed and trained, given the time, knowledge, skills, tools, facilities, experience and understanding.
         

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