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Thoughts on CA's patience pole?

This is a discussion on Thoughts on CA's patience pole? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • How long should a horse stay on a patience pole
  • Clinton anderson patience pole

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    09-01-2011, 02:45 PM
  #11
Green Broke
I don't think horses can tell time, I imagine any benifits would be gained in 10 or 15 minutes,
     
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    09-01-2011, 02:47 PM
  #12
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe4d    
I don't think horses can tell time, I imagine any benifits would be gained in 10 or 15 minutes,
It does if they stand still & relaxed. If mine don't, they hang out until they do even if that means long enough I have to to tote a bucket & take them a drink.
Rascaholic likes this.
     
    09-01-2011, 02:49 PM
  #13
Showing
I use the concept to teach my horse that just because we're back home (after a training lesson or trail ride) that it's not a reward. I've found that it especially helps with a barn sour horse - getting back doesn't mean the saddle off and time to be back with her buddies. I'll tie her to the trailer for 10 - 20 min - never more then 1/2 hour.

Incidentally, I use my trailer as a thinking pole.
     
    09-01-2011, 02:51 PM
  #14
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHFoundation Quarters    
It does if they stand still & relaxed. If mine don't, they hang out until they do even if that means long enough I have to to tote a bucket & take them a drink.
I was having a lot of problems with manners on the ground. Leading and standing still, pawing, etc. I started tying just long enough to clean stalls each day (about an hour) and then sometimes even longer and I think that time spent tied is VERY helpful. They really do learn patience so I very much agree....
     
    09-01-2011, 02:52 PM
  #15
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by iridehorses    
Incidentally, I use my trailer as a thinking pole.
I wasn't going to admit to it but... that's my thinking pole too...
     
    09-01-2011, 03:15 PM
  #16
Super Moderator
I have done this for many years. I tie them up many times that they are not even worked. I tie them up before and after they are worked.

We live on a busy US Highway. I will unsaddle a horse out in the arena next to the highway (farthest point away from the barn) and let it stand for a good while. I never finish riding and then take them directly to the barn to be unsaddled and turned out. It is just like the horse that is ridden out of the arena after a class and put away in its stalls. It rewards leaving the arena and makes them anxious to get out of the arena later -- sometimes to the extent that they prance and dance if they are the last horse to leave. These are all man-made problems.

I, too, have had to tie horses up for days and they acted like it was just another day at the office -- which it was. Absolutely nothing bothers them. They are just as ready to leave the barn or the ranch as they are to come back.

I would say, if you have horses that are in a hurry to get to the barn or hesitate leaving it by themselves or hurry to the arena gate, they could really use this type of schooling.

The benefit is only gained if the horse is standing quietly with a hind leg cocked when you put it up. If that is 15 minutes, the benefit is fully reached. If it is not before 3 hours. Then that is how long it sould take to reward him with turn-out
     
    09-01-2011, 03:43 PM
  #17
Doe
Weanling
Tying horses so they accept being tied is important. However as part of a post training regime it makes little sense and can cause more problems that it solves.

There is absolutely no evidence so suggest that tying horses has any impact of their ability to retain or reflect on anything they have been through, and personally I think that idea is absolute tosh. In actual fact I think it is more likely to hamper their retention due to several other factors.

Aside from that, after any significant training session the horse should be warming down, then cooling down. Tying reduces this possibility and increases the risk of injury.

If a horse is arena sour or acting up on finishing the session then you are doing something wrong. Deal with that rather than trying to mask the issue with tying.

I have seen several horses react to post training tying by developing quite severe food aggression as another example.

It's just another case of too much micromanagement as the only way to drill a horse into submission. Personally I really don't understand why CA even works with horses. He largely acts like someone who dislikes them at best.......
     
    09-01-2011, 03:52 PM
  #18
Foal
Very interesting replies I think I agree that the concept of letting them think the training over is pretty ridiculous. The horse isn't sitting there thinking "Oh! So if I yield to the pressure, then it goes away" At most the horse is thinking "That grass looks good. Maybe I can stretch my neck and get it"

I think I like it as more of a tool to create a buffer between the barn and the training. She could also learn to stand tied better. So how far away should she stand from the barn? I don't have a lot of property and until she learns to stand tied better, I should stay pretty close and keep an eye on her.

It is very promising to hear from those of you that have done this for a long while and now their horses can stand for hours. She could learn to have patience like that
     
    09-01-2011, 04:02 PM
  #19
Trained
Good concept. I wonder if a lot of people are just "jealous fatties" because CA is making money and has had the foresight to name these items that we've all used at one time or another?Here are several reasons why I agree with him.
1) I used to tie up my horses after workouts bc the US Cavalry Manuel suggested at least one hour of rest after work before any water or food to prevent colic;
2) I wanted to have my horses dry before I let them roll in the dirt/mud;
3) It gave me enough time to groom multiple horses after their workouts;
4) My horses are fully relaxed after at least an hour;
5) Tying for at least one hour, and often more establishes that that is part of your horse's job, to be obedient, and to be ready to be used again, if you, the head broodmare/stallion wish it to be so;
And,
6) I never realized how many NH techniques I was using in my lesson program, until recently, where I am training in young horses, and this was one thing that I did daily (April-October) and weekly (October-April.) This was one reason that I had a string of horses that anybody could handle, anybody could ride, and anybody could load in a trailer.
Now, I sometimes tie my 3 horses up, at LEAST groom them, more often after I work them, then garden for an hour (across the fence from them) and ignore them. It has certainly made them quieter.
     
    09-01-2011, 04:13 PM
  #20
Doe
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporal    
Good concept. I wonder if a lot of people are just "jealous fatties" because CA is making money and has had the foresight to name these items that we've all used at one time or another?Here are several reasons why I agree with him.
1) I used to tie up my horses after workouts bc the US Cavalry Manuel suggested at least one hour of rest after work before any water or food to prevent colic;
2) I wanted to have my horses dry before I let them roll in the dirt/mud;
3) It gave me enough time to groom multiple horses after their workouts;
4) My horses are fully relaxed after at least an hour;
5) Tying for at least one hour, and often more establishes that that is part of your horse's job, to be obedient, and to be ready to be used again, if you, the head broodmare/stallion wish it to be so;
And,
6) I never realized how many NH techniques I was using in my lesson program, until recently, where I am training in young horses, and this was one thing that I did daily (April-October) and weekly (October-April.) This was one reason that I had a string of horses that anybody could handle, anybody could ride, and anybody could load in a trailer.
Now, I sometimes tie my 3 horses up, at LEAST groom them, more often after I work them, then garden for an hour (across the fence from them) and ignore them. It has certainly made them quieter.
Corporal I'd love to know what a 'jealous fatty' is lol never heard that expression before!

In terms of the cavalry handbook that's maybe just a little out of date...... certainly you don't want hard feed straight after training, but normal grazing and natural movement after training is less likely to cause colic than standing tied and no grazing. (also likely to increase the risk of stomach ulcers too, which are becoming increasingly common, often undiagnosed and which not only threaten health but cause many behavioural and training problems too)
     

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barn sour, clinton anderson, natural horsemanship, patience pole

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