Uh-Oh, circling issue.

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Uh-Oh, circling issue.

This is a discussion on Uh-Oh, circling issue. within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        07-03-2009, 01:45 PM
    Green Broke
    Uh-Oh, circling issue.

    Ok, today I tried to circle Zeph today, and he's the friendliest horse I've ever seen, and he LOVES to be around people... but we can never get him to trot while on a line unless you run beside him. So I took a Carrot Stick and really beat the ground just to get him to walk out (in the saddle you don't need much to make him go but on the ground its really hard). When I finally hit the ground so hard, he reared and trotted out bucking, he stopped, to I hit the ground once again (to make he keep going not out of anger), he cantered out bucking wildley. I tried to turn him and go out the oposite direct, he reared once again, and continuosly bucked. I allowed his wiggles to get out, then he came back into meand I pet him before we cleaned up his hooves, and we put him back. Undersaddle, he rears up a little before going but he throws his head too. I doubt he was properly trained or never lunge trained. He is 8 years old 15.3 hands, gets 2 cups of Triple Crown Complete with supliments + fesque hay. We work with him daily (playing the 7 games and going on trail walks). How can we fix the rearing and bucking and head tossing?

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        07-03-2009, 05:12 PM
    He sounds like a left brained introvert to me. Are you familiar with the Parelli Horsenality chart?

    For this type of horse, less is more, meaning the more you do (energy wise and physically) the less he will do because he will tune you out. That's the nature of this horse. So when you smack the ground really hard, YOU are doing more than HE is....so he "wins" the game. And when you do get to a point where he responds, it's only because you got so loud (and possibly unfair) that he gets irritated and has a fit. How is he with your Send on the Cirlcing Game? How is his Bring Back? Once I know the answer to these questions, I can tell you how to fix your Allow.
        07-03-2009, 07:47 PM
    I looked at your pictures of Zeph and read your description of him. Sounds like a completely different horse then than now. This is very common for horses. Right now, you are working with sticky feet. Judging from the pictures, The reason that Zeph doesn't want to go forward is because its hard for him without support. When the energy has trouble going forward, it goes up. Circles are going to be difficult for him without support from an outside rein.

    Have you ever done ground driving? If you know how or know someone who knows how, then this would probably be the most beneficial thing to him physically. I wouldn't recommend you winging it in teaching him how. However, this will allow you to help support him left to right without the added problem of weight on his back. Circling is actually very hard on an unbalanced horse, which majority of horses are in one way or another. Even though some accomplish it, they usually alter their bodies in a way which is doing further damage. This does require accurate cues from the "rider", so again I would still suggest find help with it.

    I personally have worked with many horses with the issue of "blowing up on the lunge line". I find with all of these horses that it is actually a defense mechanism for the lack of comfort in their own skin. By offering them support to assist in their balance (not do it for them, just help them find it), they become more willing and are quickly able to lunge without the support.
        07-06-2009, 10:40 AM
    Green Broke
    Spirithorse, he never wants to be sent out, so I do have to point and lifit the stick. He will walk but ince he is be hind your back he will come in. He like to work but I don't know what his deal is. I think he's extroverted becuase he's so friendly ad outgoing.

    FlitterBug, umm explain ground driving to me, I've done a lot in the past year and know what to do but forget what its called.

    No doubt its a support thing because he keeps coming in to look at me and it seems like he wants help. I didnt work with him yesterday due to rain, but I will try working with him when its nice out.
        07-06-2009, 04:57 PM
    If you could post a video that would be best. He could be doing that because he's unconfident or he's just being "stubborn." What is his body language telling you? Can he look at you with two eyes, or does he turn his head? Is he bracy in his neck? Does he continue to blink a lot?

    If he is unconfident, then you'll have to be very slow with your phases and reward the slightest try. If he is indeed unconfident, he is coming into you when he is BEHIND you because there is no pressure from you there....all your pressure comes from your front. So just turn softly, rub him, then gently send him away again. You'll have to build his confidence.

    Now, if he is confident and just isn't wanting to go, now is when you give him a "long phase 1 and a quick 2-3-4." Are you familiar with that? This is about getting his respect. He doesn't go b/c he's basically "sticking his tongue out at you" and he stops behind you b/c he knows you can't see him! So when he turns in turn around and rub him (if he comes in all the way) then back him out and send him again. Each time make the dwell time shorter and shorter to where you give him one stroke down his face then you send him promptly back out. Each time getting a little more firm, but never unfair. Remember to drive Zone 1, that's going to be key for dominant horses like this. His release will be when he stays out on the circle.
        07-06-2009, 05:01 PM
    Green Broke
    I will take a video Wednesday. 'Rents are divorced, im with dad.

    Your probably right, SpiritHorse, confidence issue. But I know what lick and chew means, it means they understand and learn from what just happened.
        07-06-2009, 05:24 PM
    When he does like and chew, does his tongue come out or does he keep it "secret?"
        07-07-2009, 09:34 AM
    Green Broke
    Um it comes out I think.
        07-07-2009, 10:40 AM
    Mybest friends arab used to head toss and she got some kind of rein that attached to the noseband, behind the chin and the other end attached to a breastgirth. This rein was loose enough that the horse could move its head but tight enough that it couldnt toss its head. It sounds cruel but it was only used for about two weeks, every ride. I don't know what the rein was called sorry as I have never used one myself but apparently it also works with a stirrup leather if you have a long one, loop it through the breat girth and noseband then buckle it fairly tight.
        07-07-2009, 07:34 PM
    A video would be great, that way I could read the horse and see for myself what's going on.

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