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Wanting opinions on my theory? sort of..

This is a discussion on Wanting opinions on my theory? sort of.. within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • My horse is confused with hide your hiney and lunging
  • Intuitive horsemanship

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    06-21-2010, 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by Spirithorse    
To me, NH is Parelli. It's the most natural way I have seen to handle and be with horses.

That would be the farthest thing from the truth in my eyes.

NH as stated below your post is simply good intuitive horsemanship and it DOES NOT have a brand name attached to it.
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    06-21-2010, 10:47 AM
Kitten Val and Spyder:
That is what I don't like nowadays. I think its more the 'status' of being a "parelli trainer" or a "natural horsemanship trainer", than the actual thinking about the training they are doing.
A horse I was asked to work with last summer had been started on some parelli training but had not completed a full level or something because the trainer had gotten sick. So she asked me to continue on with her training and finish her. In her training, they learned something called 'hide your hiney' where they have to be facing you at all times. This horse picks up on things quickly and once she has something, SHE HAS IT. So this was extremely inconvienient when I was brushing her, lunging her, and doing other exercises like teaching her to stand. She would get so frustrated and confused because she had been taught that she would get a little flick on the bum with a carrot stick if she was ever NOT facing the handler. I don't know when this tactic would ever come in handy unless you have a kicker. But in that case there are better ways to deal with it then that.
Some people don't realize what they are actually training their horses to do, or what problems they will face eventually if they don't continue with the DVDs or the textbook exercises that they are doing. Eventually, I just stopped working with that horse because the owner was trying to get me to do more parelli with her and I refused to use those methods. Now I'm not saying all of their methods are bad, and actually, a lot of them are pretty good! But only as long as you do it ALL. You can't just do part of a level. Which is what I don;t like about it. Because all horses are different. You cannot expect every horse to react the same way.
Anymore opinions?
    06-21-2010, 11:18 AM
I totally agree with some of the methods of many of the "NH" trainers. I find it helpful to use some methods from many to accomplish my goals, since, as stated above, each horse is different. My guy is a perfect example-he will not do a turn on the haunches using the Parelli way, but will using CA's method. I feel they each just give me more tools in my toolbox to use when needed.

I also agree with some of the Parelli statement above. Some of the things they teach I find frustrating, like the fact that they never do a full circle on line at least in level 1. My new guy came knowing the "basics" of NH, and I believe he was taught Parelli, since he went about a 1/2 circle and stops and looks at me. It took a while to get him to do full circles......he thought he was doing it right-not his fault, certainly!
Some are also TOO gentle for my taste-I had a Frank Bell certified instructor almost pass out one day during a lesson when I hit-yes-HIT-my horse with the "carrot stick"! He kicked at me, and as I explained to her-there are just some behaviors that are flat out unexceptable ALWAYS. And he needed to know that right then...not just be scolded, and/or have me wiggle the lead. In those cases, where the behavior is dangerous-I subscribe to the "3 second rule"!! :))
    06-21-2010, 11:45 AM
I agree with you there franknbeans < love that name btw!!>
I take different techniques from different trainers, and use what works for the horse! But safety should never be compromised. If a horse in the wild tried to kick at the alpha mare, what do you think the alpha mare would do?
I think that horse would get a hoof in the belly as a good warning to stay in their place! Not that you should be kicking your horse, but just so you understand the mentality behind smacking a horse for that reason.
Anymore opinions?
    06-21-2010, 12:06 PM
An NH'er myself, I have noticed that the best riders I see, be they western or english, demonstrate the basic principles of any "natural" philosophy. Whether on TV, or at my barn, the most skilled riders understand how horses (and their horse, specifically) thinks. They therefore can communicate effectively with their horses with limited frustration.. and consequently, without unneccessary amounts of force.

I think NH is all about using the most logical (to the horse!) training techniques and reactions. I mean herd dynamics, like X Branded Heart X mentioned. And this kind of "fair", understandable treatment builds a strong relationship between horse and rider.

Gawani Pony Boy, Pat Parelli, and all the offshoots, understand, in short, that a horse is a horse. And that we humans have a better chance of mimicking a horse than a horse has trying to act like a human. So I second franknbeans (lol) with the three second rule and reacting to dangerous behavior

I also agree that NH can never be captured in any step-by-step DVD. Every horse is different!!
    06-21-2010, 05:03 PM
Actually in Level 1 they look for 2-4 laps in the Circling Game ;)
    06-21-2010, 05:12 PM
This is all great guys :) Keep 'em coming!
And the whole herd mentality I find is really helpful, especially when you start to get frustrated with a horse. I like to stop and think for a second.. what your asking them is probably not something 'natural' , or something they would do in the wild. So I try to think of the most 'horse like' way of saying it! Lol
Thanks for the opinions :)
    06-22-2010, 03:17 PM
"Hide your hiney" and so forth are more advanced lessons with a HUGE emphasis on the handler's BODY LANGUAGE. It's not a trick, so to speak, that "happens" with a "cue." Your horse should never be afraid of your touch. If he is, you've "broken" something along the way (in PP terms) and maybe need to go back to the Friendly Game, or Porcupine (which always uses a hands-on touch, not a rope wiggle or body language.)
    06-22-2010, 03:23 PM
And like I said, I don't pretend to know anything about parelli games. I just know that her frustration lead her to becoming violent. She wasn't afraid of my touch either, she just thought she supposed to be playing that game all the time while with a person. And I guess because she didn't learn the entire level, it just confused her when someone asked her to do otherwise.
Thanks for the explanation though. :)
    06-22-2010, 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by Spyder    
That would be the farthest thing from the truth in my eyes.

NH as stated below your post is simply good intuitive horsemanship and it DOES NOT have a brand name attached to it.
I totally agree with you on that!

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