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weaning naturally

5K views 33 replies 20 participants last post by  smrobs 
#1 ·
I have read so many different ideas I would like to get some opinions from this group. I bought a mare in November of 2012 and she turned out to be in foal unbeknownst to the seller and of course us. In March of 2013 she foaled a gorgeous appy colt. Now I have never raised a colt and am fairly new to owning horses myself. So all has gone very well but we are at the point now where we are thinking about weaning. So here is our dilemma. We want to keep the colt and don't want to cause them so much stress with an abrupt separation. I have read that this can cause many issues down the road. The colt has developed a wonderful relationship with a new mare I just bought 2 months ago. He hangs out with her as much as his Mom. We also have a POA gelding (herd boss) I have read that letting the mare decide when to wean is a good thing and I am not opposed this but need some help for my mare. She has lost weight and we worry about this. From what I read if I boost her grain she will only make more milk perpetuating the problem. If I take her off grain won't she lose even more weight? My mare is a fleabitten Quarab just under 15HH. I have since discovered her colt was sired by a Sugarbush stallion which is a Draft/Appy cross. I am sure this colt is just drawing quite a lot from Mom for his growth needs. How can I balance this with the least physical and emotional damage to the Dam and her colt? I also have a small place with only a 70 foot round pen to separate the two. (I was not planning on a baby but here we are)
 
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#2 ·
At 6 months old, that colt is ready to be weaned. Plus, you need to get him gelded or he will impregnate both his mother and his female companion, which means more babies you don't want or have room for.

You need to separate him from both mares immediately, even if it's just to stick him in the round pen until he's completely weaned and gelded. Some mares never self wean, and will continue to nurse a foal as long as they'll suckle. Sounds like your mare is one of these.
 
#3 ·
Agreed, some mares will never self wean and some mares will even adopt a young'un that isn't theirs and let it nurse.

He needs to be separated and gelded ASAP. Especially since your mare is having trouble keeping weight. All the food she eats is going toward making milk for a baby that doesn't need it. So long as he's nursing, she won't gain weight.
 
#4 ·
I'd put mom in the roundpen, to dry up, leave colt with the " herd", then start, after mom is dry, feeding her extra to gain back her weight.
I let my mares wean the babies, usually happened when they approached a year, but it was a herd situation and very easy on all involved. And I had moms and babies on a feed, so babies didn't " overuse" the moms, so I didn't have weight problems.
What I would do in your situation is take her out and in the roundpen starting with an hour, and watch how colt holds up without her.
If the gelding is boss, you shouldn't have to be in such a hurry to geld the colt. He won't stand much chance. But I would get it done before spring for sure. MHO, I don't believe in gelding super early.
 
#5 ·
At 6 months old, it's time to take him off of her and let him lose his "parts". I actually like to geld as early as possible if they're dropped. I did this year's colt at 2 1/2 months. He went to sleep intact, woke up and nursed as a gelding. He never even blinked about the operation. Just fyi if you ever have another colt.

My place isn't huge, and I prefer not to listen to the bawling and squalling that goes on with both of the horses if they can see/hear each other. I have a boarding farm that's about 5 miles away from me, has lovely grazing land down by a river, and that's where mom goes for some "me" time. I put her colt in a stall, load her in the trailer and then come back and let him back out into the bachelor pasture, or if a filly in with the mares, and in just an hour or so he's settled and not really even looking for mom. I pay for mom to have 30 days at the "spa" and when she comes back neither is particularly interested in the other. Very easy.
 
#6 ·
I too feel that going cold turkey is best. No use in separating them only to put them back together after a short while. Humans are very emotional beings. We don't like hearing them cry out. Horses are not the same. They get over it much easier than we do.
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#7 ·
My foal

I appreciate all the advice. I have done quite a lot of reading and feel that cold turkey weaning is not best for our horses. It can cause behavioral issues down the road. As to gelding the colt will be gelded in October or November when he reaches 8 months. My vet will not geld in summer months when the flys are this bad and they have been really bad this season. He does not cry out and or act bad when Mom is in the round pen by herself. He just runs off to bug the other horses LOL or at times will run off all by himself. I want to keep encouraging his independence and confidence and I feel taking his Dam away completely would hinder that. He really loves the other mare Willow who does not put up with his nincompoopery so he is learning respect from her and I appreciate that. In our situation putting his Dam in the roundpen would be best and she is not bothered by it terribly. Especially at feeding time so she can eat all she wants with no distraction. The new mare I bought came to me underweight so this also helps allow her to eat since my Mare Star (dam of the colt) will always run her off the hay. I will try a few hours per day in the round pen for Star and see how it goes. The colt eats hay and grain really well so he should be asking for less of her but like some said he may just keep nursing if she lets him. We do not breed horses so this is a one time deal for sure. I am looking into some feeds that may keep weight on her as we get through this. I guess most people plan to sell babies born on their farms so things are done with this in mind. This was a surprise baby for us and I can't see letting him go now that we have him. He makes the Fantastic 4 so we are good! :lol:
 
#9 ·
Ditto what palomine said.

If cold turkey caused behavioral issues there a majority of the horses in the world would have some serious issues.

You are anthropomorphizing your horses' relationships way, way too much. Horses are not people and do not think or feel the way people do or look at relationships the way people do.

Personally I would be separating him from the mares to avoid any chance of impregnating either his dam or the other mare.
 
#10 ·
I can understand waiting to geld until the flies have died down for the season, but you need to separate him from the mares NOW.

He won't have any psychological problems from being weaned cold turkey, nor will his mother. They're horses, not people. At 6 months of age, he's past time to be weaned. Pretty obvious his mother isn't going to do it, so you as the human responsible for their care and well being need to make that decision.
 
#11 ·
If the mare is struggling to hold her weight then she has rights to, so I would take her away and leave him with the herd, he will probably never notice that she has gone.

I have weaned at all sorts of ages, I always abrupt wean, because to me it is far more cruel to drag it out, both on Mother and colt. I've never had bad issues down the road. From mommas point of view if you wean, you can keep her on a lighter diet for a week or so until she starts drying up and then start increasing her feed so she is at a good healthy weight before the winter. The colt is not the only part of the equation here.
 
#12 ·
A mare of ours was weaned at 6 weeks old. She does have behavioral issues. Not really from the actual weaning but from what happened after. We didn't own the dam and she was already drying up because she wasn't being fed properly. We had another horse there and pulled them both due to the poor care the horses were getting. We had already started our filly on milk replacement pellets.

When we moved them, our filly was constantly cooed and coddled over. She has no fear of humans and at times has respect issues. But again, that wasn't from being weaned itself. It was how she was treated and handled after.
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#14 · (Edited by Moderator)
not a real nice group here

Seems some of the folks here just jump right on criticizing people and don't really even read what is said.
The colt JUST turned 5 months old days ago and I will not go against my Vet's advice and geld him too soon. I don't think horses are people nor am I putting human emotion on them. I have been reading a lot about raising horses naturally and this is the information I have found. It has been PROVEN that abrupt weaning can/may cause loss of confidence and setbacks in training. Perhaps not with every horse but why would I take a chance?
My mare IS the reason I posted this. My concern is for her weight and how to keep it up while she weans her foal.

There are such judgmental people here.
 
#17 · (Edited by Moderator)
Seems some of the folks here just jump right on criticizing people and don't really even read what is said.
The colt JUST turned 5 months old days ago and I will not go against my Vet's advice and geld him too soon. I don't think horses are people nor am I putting human emotion on them. I have been reading a lot about raising horses naturally and this is the information I have found. It has been PROVEN that abrupt weaning can/may cause loss of confidence and setbacks in training. Perhaps not with every horse but why would I take a chance?
My mare IS the reason I posted this. My concern is for her weight and how to keep it up while she weans her foal.

There are such judgmental people here.
IMHO, reading is a good thing, but thinking that what you are doing is natural is a bit naive as NOTHING you do with a horse is natural to it. Your mare is NOT weaning him because she's not bred back. In the wild mares are bred back asap. You will have to separate them and make sure that he cannot nurse or she will not dry up. What causes "loss of confidence and setbacks" isn't the way foals were weaned, but the way they are handled.
 
#15 ·
Wow. The people here that have given you good advice, many of them have bred, weaned and trained more horses than I've taken breaths. You asked a question and you got advice. Unfortunately if the mare doesn't wean this foal on her own its going to suck her down to skin and bone. I'm not sure what you mean by 'natural' weaning, sometimes it's not natural, sometimes birthing isn't natural either and one has to intervene for the sake of the mare, just as you should for the sake of your mare.

Oh well then.
 
#16 ·
So you want to find somewhere that people will just agree with you? You may find it boring after a while.

The beauty of an open board is that you get all sorts of opinions, all you have to do is take on what appeals to you and ignore what doesn't. Mind you if 90% of people are saying something other than what you believe, then MAYBE you should re examine your stance.
 
#18 ·
Badgerdogbren, people here are trying to help you. When you wean a horse too late, it can cause weight issues for momma. I know you care about your mare and your colt. So saying this, and I know you wouldn't let it get to this extent, a horse at the barn where I keep my horse was gelded at four years old, and was one of the worst horses I have ever had to deal with. He was studdish, couldn't be turned out with any horses other than one mare, and he broke clean through fences, even after he was gelded.. So basically what I am saying, is find the balance that works for you and your horses. Some mares will let foals suckle till they are skin and bones. As long as the baby is suckling, she will be producing milk, which means that all the feed your trying to bulk her up with is going to the colt. 6 months is usually a good weaning time, some go a little longer if the foal needs it. Some people wean younger because the foal is either a)strong enough, or b) causing detrimental weight loss/issues for the mare. I'd take the colt, put him in a pen with the gelding, and take the mare on a 30 day vacation to a friends barn or something like that. Horses don't really "miss their mothers" after they've been weaned. He may pace a bit the first little while but he will settle down alright. This is how my friend does it, and she's been breeding Quarter horses for 20+ years. You've been given some really good advice by people on here, These people are all quite knowledgeable. Please, for the horse's ske, listen to them. Best of luck
 
#19 ·
I bought a mare pony years ago who had her 2 year old filly still nursing on her.

Knew a guy who thought he could wean his colt by putting short tacks through the noseband of his halter so that when he tried to nurse the tacks would ***** the mare thereby would make her quit letting the colt nurse. Ummm yeah, that didn't work too well.

What did work for me and I did it for many years was keeping the foals out in the pasture they were used to being in along with my old gelding and any mares who didn't foal that year. The nursing mares went into the pasture right next to the one the foals were in. We have electrified high tensile fencing and it is well respected by all. They could still see each other and for the first couple of days they might stick to grazing along the fence line but after that the greener grass in other parts of the pasture would call to them and that would be the end of them hanging out within sight. It was never traumatic for the mares or foals. Never had a one try to go through or over the fence.

I also used to wait until fall to geld the colts and never had a surprise pregnancy. Not saying it's impossible but I personally never had an issue with them trying to breed any mares. Just keep a close eye on him and make sure he's not showing any interest.
 
#20 ·
I'm sorry that you consider people who are straightforward and honest to be rude. We don't believe in pussyfooting or head-patting around here so if that's what you're looking for, you probably are in the wrong place :?.

It's really too bad, you could have learned a lot here. I hope the mare doesn't suffer any permanent damage from malnutrition brought on by nursing a foal that doesn't need to nurse...and I hope she doesn't end up bred by her own son here in a couple of months. If she's skinny, then she's in no condition to carry another foal without complications.
 
#21 ·
Well if you don't want to do the cold turkey way, separate them longer each day until they are separated completely. Since you can already separate them for short periods now without issue, it shouldn't be to difficult. I guess you already had your answer though. Until the foal is weaned, the mare won't gain weight.
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#24 ·
my filly is 5-1/2 months now, and has been weaned for a month. she has NO problems from weaning at 4-1/2 months. she is with other horses who are teaching her manners. she actually behaves BETTER being away from mom. with mom, she was a stinker and her dam let her get away with being pushy and nippy. the other horses do not and she is a nice, respectable, well mannered girl now.

mom and baby and still see eachother, touch noses, but baby cannot nurse. mom still hasnt dried up completely. its been a long process. but hasnt been difficult at all. on me or the horses.

there is nothing wrong with waiting until 8/9/10 months to geld. i had one done at 3 months, and others done at 1 year and a few months. they have suffered no ill-effects, are well mannered. to each their own. my boys were seperated with a herd of geldings and didnt have the chance to be with mares.

and yes, mares will continue to nurse foals. at one point i seen a 14 month olf nurse off of his dam. ridiclious and completely unnecessary.

in order to put weight on the mare, your going to have to let her dry up. going cold turkey would be taking dam or foal off the property. but just putting her in the round pen where they could see one another, is not cold turkey imo.
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#26 ·
I have weaned many many foals and have done it several ways. The only time, when I was involved with a mare and foal belonging to a friend, in weaning 'naturally' whereby he left the mare and foal together, the 'foal' was still suckling his dam when he was two years old. This horse was one of the worse I had to break in because of a severe seperation anxiety.
In nature a mare would be back in foal within weeks of fooling, sometimes days. This means that as she gets to giving more to the foetus her milk will dry up. If she is not in foal then she will continue to produce milk as long as the foal feeds from her.

If the foal is happy with his 'Aunty' then I would remove the mare and take her away for at least a month, out of hearing distance of the foal. If this is not feasible then I would separate them so they can see and touch each other but he cannot feed from her.
 
#27 ·
OP You have had only honest advice spoken out of experience, while people might not agree to your idea that leaving the colt with its mother is a good idea no one has said it rudely that I can see
Unless you can actually simulate a real wild herd with acres and acres of land it simply isn't going to work the way you want it too. You will run the risk of having a mare that's going to really struggle to get back into condition and a youngster that is going to be so clingy to her when you do have to finally split them that the whole process will be far more traumatic for him
The ideal for a weanling is that it goes completely away from its mother (or mother is taken away whichever is easiest to do) and the young one is turned out with other youngsters or even one youngster to have company or a well mannered 'nanny' - preferably a gelding.
I think you might be trying to humanize the situation too much, I have never had a problem weaning a foal this way, the mare is in need of a break now - in the wild she might even drive it away but she cant in your situation though she might begin to get aggressive with him if it becomes too much for her.
 
#28 ·
My mother in law has 2 pens that are across one another with a gravel road in between. She starts them out by putting them in small pens beside one another, then she moves them so there is one pen in between, and then she moves them so that they are in the pens across from one another. If there is a group of foals, she will often skip this as both are happier in groups than alone. She has always weaned this way with zero issue. They're both happy because they can see one another, but the mare can dry her milk up and the foal eats grass and foal feed twice daily to get the nutrients a growing foal needs. I have seen her do this year after year with zero issues and both have zero anxiety

Perhaps there is a way you can separate them this way?
 
#29 ·
I personally agree with weaning cold turkey at this point. He'll run around and scream like a banschee for a while but he'll settle down.

As for gelding, I waited until mine was nearly a year old to geld because he had only dropped one of his jewels. We finally gelded and dug for them but as long as you keep him seperated and teach him manners, I see no problem with waiting a little longer to geld. Just know that they can and will mate at a very early age and if your fences are not strong, he will find a way to get to your mares.

As for keeping her healthy, we fed a mare formula to her and the baby was on a junior forumal feed.

The advice you've been given has been good advice. I suggest you read through and take what you will.

Good luck.
 
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#30 ·
Last time we were gelding here I had 2 colts at 10 and 11 months, had been waiting for the 10 month old to drop, he was shy, and one 3 month old, he wasn't shy, forward little monster.

The bigger colts though had been living in bachelor quarters from when they were weaned at 6 months.
 
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