What does natural horsemanship mean to you? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

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post #11 of 32 Old 04-17-2013, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by waresbear View Post
Before I heard about the marketing associated with NH, it meant, to me, riding without a bra on and maybe topless if requested!
Hey this hippy chick that lives up the street rides stark neked!! That natural enough? Lol. Im sure she had a few puffs on that ol wacky tobaccy! Lol.
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post #12 of 32 Old 04-17-2013, 10:12 PM
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Riding in some state of undress? ROFLMAO! THAT must be why some BNT's don't like the term! No impropriety here, no, suh!

I think of NH as understanding horse psychology & working WITH it rather than against it. Whoever doesn't ask/demand anything of the horse prior to understanding that horse & understanding what that horse needs in that moment is doing NH, by my definition.

I use it as a handy term to describe the "partnership" way. By this definition, some who never heard the term were doing NH, like the Mongols on their war ponies.
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post #13 of 32 Old 04-18-2013, 05:13 AM
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TO me Natural Horsemanship is communicating with horses in the way they communicate with each other, being able to connect and communicate in a beautiful and graceful way, while maintaining dominance and trust with any horse is my ultimate goal in the end. Klaus Hempfling is my role model, and I will try and have relationships that he has with horses.

Klaus Hempfling is some one I want to follow because after reading his book the things I have done correct and haven't done correct add up.. so many pieces I have put together and its like a puzzle.. so many puzzles have been solved in my head about horses just by reading " Dancing with Horses " and off course watching how Klaus communicates and leads his horses on youtube.

I have learnt why my body went into certain positions sometimes when with my old horse who trusted me, and how I got such good results out of doing things he did. I understand all he says in his book because, when I was around horses id listen to them and I knew 99 % of the time it was me causing the horse to react a certain way.

A Natural horsemanship bond id like to have when I get my own horse is:
A horse that's willing, respectful, a follower and trusts me not on the foundation of violence or peer pressure but a horse that I can communicate with using his language, and because the horse will see me as a valuable and the only leader he has when he is with me.. because the horse has many things to teach me and when I can communicate with the horse than he can speak to me and than we both will be happy because horses shouldn't have to guess what we ask of them, I want a strong natural method of communicating with a horse like they do in the wild.

I have just about read all of 'Dancing with Horses' by Klaus Hempfling and it all makes sense to me already. I just need to watch the dvd's and read all the other books because when I look at the way he communicates with horses it looks beautiful and natural.

This is my opinion.
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post #14 of 32 Old 04-18-2013, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
What is up with the recent NH obsession on this forum?

Natural Horsemanship: a one size fits all mentality of training that supplies newbies with just enough information to ruin a perfectly good horse or get themeselves killed.
aaa are you here just to start arguments ?
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post #15 of 32 Old 04-18-2013, 05:24 AM
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I did natural horsemanship with my previous lease horse... im not sure what all you people do when doing natural horsemanship but he never ever KICKED ME, Bit me, Pushed me or EVER ran over me !
That's him in the picture with me jumping tackless.. he never refused doing that because he didn't have a saddle on him. The saddle was ill fitting and the owner knew about the saddle being terrible ill fitting but didn't tell me, I now have basic knowledge about if a saddle fits or not.

The foolish reject what they see, not what they think,
The wise reject what they think, not what they see.
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post #16 of 32 Old 04-18-2013, 07:33 AM
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I think that any horsemanship, including anything that is labeled as "natural", varies among individuals/trainers, so I'll just describe what I do that means natural horsemanship to me:

1. Any training is to be started and progressed only according to the psychological and physical needs, possibilities, maturity and health of the individual horse. Young horses are let to mature as long as possible before any physically harder work.

2. Any training is to be based on the body language and psychology of the horse, first making sure that all the horses' needs are met, e.g. - feeding, socializing, movements, etc. are as close to the natural needs of the horse as possible.

3. The goal of the training is to let the horse discover himself as a proud and powerful being, making all the circumstances such that they motivate him to give me his full potential, and to co-operate with me as a trusted leader.

4. All the reactions are to come from communication, not restriction, and with as little technical aids, as possible.

5. The tack is to be as little invasive as possible, and just to support the horse, not to alter him into what he wouldn't be able to do without the tack. It must not harm the horse in any way - physical or emotional.

And, of course - "Be as soft as possible, but as firm as necessary."
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post #17 of 32 Old 04-18-2013, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by OliviaMyee View Post
aaa are you here just to start arguments ?
It was a tongue in cheek statement.

The problem I have with NH isn't so much the techniques used by the trainers so much as the false sense of security it gives people who have very little experience with horses. I have read and watched them all. They are all doing pretty much the same thing. I will maintain that NO ONE CAN LEARN EFFECTIVE HORSEMANSHIP FROM WATCHING A VIDEO.

Sure, they can show you a bunch of exercises that we can all go out and imitate to a certain degree. But until you know why and how those exercises are effective for both horse and rider, you are still going to be stuck in the blind leading the blind mode. And as long as that is how you operate at some point either the horse or the handler is going to wind up hurt.

I wish they would just drop the word natural and leave it at horsemanship.
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post #18 of 32 Old 04-18-2013, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by OliviaMyee View Post
A Natural horsemanship bond id like to have when I get my own horse is:
A horse that's willing, respectful, a follower and trusts me not on the foundation of violence or peer pressure but a horse that I can communicate with using his language, and because the horse will see me as a valuable and the only leader he has when he is with me.. because the horse has many things to teach me and when I can communicate with the horse than he can speak to me and than we both will be happy because horses shouldn't have to guess what we ask of them, I want a strong natural method of communicating with a horse like they do in the wild.
I understand that this is your own view and opinion, I totally respect that, but I get confused over this, and this is a genuine question, not being nasty at all.

The bolded part is where I always start to struggle, because in the natural setting horses to establish respect and pecking order by the use, or the threat, of violence, that IS his language. Horses are naturally adapted to living in a hierarchy where peer pressure and dominance are part of their lives. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be physically abusing my horse, but I don't see the odd physical correction as abuse, there is no way I can get the same level of contact using my body as a horse can.

The working with a horse using body language, and communicating with them in a way that they can understand I do get. I want to always set up my training to make it easy for the horse to do the right thing, and hard for them to fail, that to me is kind of natural I have learned over the last couple of years how much body language and subtle communications between horse and human affect outcomes, so I have worked on improving my horsemanship skills.

After that I would quote Sahara and agree with her totally.
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post #19 of 32 Old 04-18-2013, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Saranda View Post

And, of course - "Be as soft as possible, but as firm as necessary."
Saranda, I agree with pretty much everything you said.

I always think of natural horsemanship (at least in the training process) as relying less on equipment like martingales, die downs, etc.. I don't think it's any worse or better than classical training.
While I do think it is easier to hurt a horse using aides like those mentioned above, I think any resulting abuse has more to do with the trainer's mentality & lack of skill than it does with the technique they are using.
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post #20 of 32 Old 04-18-2013, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Golden Horse View Post
I understand that this is your own view and opinion, I totally respect that, but I get confused over this, and this is a genuine question, not being nasty at all.

The bolded part is where I always start to struggle, because in the natural setting horses to establish respect and pecking order by the use, or the threat, of violence, that IS his language. Horses are naturally adapted to living in a hierarchy where peer pressure and dominance are part of their lives. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be physically abusing my horse, but I don't see the odd physical correction as abuse, there is no way I can get the same level of contact using my body as a horse can.

The working with a horse using body language, and communicating with them in a way that they can understand I do get. I want to always set up my training to make it easy for the horse to do the right thing, and hard for them to fail, that to me is kind of natural I have learned over the last couple of years how much body language and subtle communications between horse and human affect outcomes, so I have worked on improving my horsemanship skills.

After that I would quote Sahara and agree with her totally.
Well ill explain my opinion into further detail so maybe you can understand it. So I used to walk into a paddock to fetch a horse right, and I would make every single horse that was near me move away and "respect my space" using methods of physical force. But because I did this all the time I became not some one who was respected but some one the horses in the paddock didn't like.

Afterwards when I realised what I had gone wrong with I spent time sitting around in the paddock watching the horses and because there is a large group of them over 10 I figured out who was the lead mare and who was the lead gelding, and than I figured out who was the most dominant horse... A horse that was most violent of all ... A horse that was not liked by alll the horses and than I realised I was acting like the horse that was most feared but he was not liked. That horse was not the protector and leader of the group he was just feared and not as strong as the lead gelding or lead mare.

So Than I studied the lead gelding and mare , (listen here so you understand) and I can't remember a time when they ever were violent. They were so trusted by all the other horses, respected and depended on that they didn't need to use violence to communicate, and direct the other horses because they were leaders that were not feared just like A terrible communist leader compared to A mostly fair American or Australian leader. So I read "Dancing with horses" and Klaus wrote this in his book about how the good leader gelding, and mares hardly ever use violence and physical force towards their group of horses they lead and protect. Klaus is an expert in horse communication more than "horse training".

Than I studied the horses lower down in the herd for example my horse that had scars and cuts.. The horses lower down in the herd used violence very frequently because they are actually "weaker" and not as strong as the leader horses.

I want to be like a good leader gelding or lead mare.
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The foolish reject what they see, not what they think,
The wise reject what they think, not what they see.
-Huang Po
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