What in the world is going on here? - Page 3
 
 

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What in the world is going on here?

This is a discussion on What in the world is going on here? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        04-02-2013, 10:07 AM
      #21
    Showing
    Did anyone notice how that big clip whacks the horse in the jaw? He get whacked then yanked as the rope swings side to side. To keep a horse out of my space I find it more effective to walk with it and switch direction when it gets too close. There's no clip to whack him under the jaw but he will get an abrupt pull on the halter if he's not paying attention. I just focus on where I'm walking. Before long he'll be mindful so avoid the sudden pull on the halter. The horse gets about 6' of lead. After direction changin half a dozen times when I stop, he's content to stop and stay out of my space. The moment he does we start walking and switching directions. Backing a horse out of your space is not a herd response as horses rarely back up, they will, but not very often. Instead they will turn and move in a forward direction as that is how they are built. So Linda's method doesn't begin to resemble "natural horsemanship". But do look at that video as a How Not to Do It. With a high energy horse it is better to use the absolute least amount of energy when making a request-a bare whisper. This seems to pique the horse's interest rather than turning the situation into the horse seeing you as a predator. This brings up the flight or fight response.
         
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        04-02-2013, 10:12 AM
      #22
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
    Did anyone notice how that big clip whacks the horse in the jaw? He get whacked then yanked as the rope swings side to side. To keep a horse out of my space I find it more effective to walk with it and switch direction when it gets too close. There's no clip to whack him under the jaw but he will get an abrupt pull on the halter if he's not paying attention. I just focus on where I'm walking. Before long he'll be mindful so avoid the sudden pull on the halter. The horse gets about 6' of lead. After direction changin half a dozen times when I stop, he's content to stop and stay out of my space. The moment he does we start walking and switching directions. Backing a horse out of your space is not a herd response as horses rarely back up, they will, but not very often. Instead they will turn and move in a forward direction as that is how they are built. So Linda's method doesn't begin to resemble "natural horsemanship". But do look at that video as a How Not to Do It.
    I said that in my post on the first page :/ painful to watch. I teach mine to get the heck out of my space and disengage depending on which body part I step at- also use a flag if necessary, but you will rarely find me going to the horses head to fix something somewhere else on the body; if they need a sharp reprimand I'll use a halter, but in nature they don't beat each other on the face to get each others attention, I usually see them going to the shoulder to get a herd mate to move... Just my opinion. If I was trying to get that horse to pay attention to me a flag would be my first tool- I like that it's much quicker and specific than a stick or end of the lead rope for certain things
    You nailed it with the backing up response, how unnatural it is. I teach mine to step away with the shoulder and move forward- but I don't crouch in a ball and point myself towards the back end... Don't really get that either.
         
        04-02-2013, 10:19 AM
      #23
    Started
    This is to teach the horse to yield from pressure and back. They are doing it wrong in this video though - Pat Parelli would be the one to ask, or someone like me to knows how to do it in a way that horses understand and get the best offer first.

    What you are supposed to do:
    STand in front of your horse holding the end of the lead. Stand squarely and serious-like. Then looking behind him (or I look at his hind feet) wiggle your finger to start. If he doesnt make a move to back, wiggle your wrist softly. Still doesn't go, wiggle wrist more, then wiggle rope using your forearm, then move the rope using your whole arms sweeping side -to-side.
    It doesn't make your horse head-shy, and I always make sure I have no hardware on my halters. If there is, I don't go past the forearm movement. Sometimes not even that far, depending on how high the rope swings or how strong I'm swinging it.
         
        04-02-2013, 10:22 AM
      #24
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by amberly    
    This is to teach the horse to yield from pressure and back. They are doing it wrong in this video though - Pat Parelli would be the one to ask, or someone like me to knows how to do it in a way that horses understand and get the best offer first.

    What you are supposed to do:
    STand in front of your horse holding the end of the lead. Stand squarely and serious-like. Then looking behind him (or I look at his hind feet) wiggle your finger to start. If he doesnt make a move to back, wiggle your wrist softly. Still doesn't go, wiggle wrist more, then wiggle rope using your forearm, then move the rope using your whole arms sweeping side -to-side.
    It doesn't make your horse head-shy, and I always make sure I have no hardware on my halters. If there is, I don't go past the forearm movement. Sometimes not even that far, depending on how high the rope swings or how strong I'm swinging it.
    Do you do parelli? If so, you're one of the first I've heard of that doesn't use a metal buckle :)
    Posted via Mobile Device
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        04-02-2013, 01:46 PM
      #25
    Weanling
    This is NOT the complete clip! I have seen the whole video and this is being taken out of context. The goal was not to have the horse back up in this particular instance, the goal was to have the horse stand still, away from the owner, because it had been behaving very dangerously.

    This is about the middle of the session, the horse began by barging over it's owner nearly knocking him to the ground several times, this was about getting the horses attention. As for wiggling fingers at this horse, a phase one or two would have been completely ignored because the horse was overly excited by being in a new location with a bunch of strange horses. If the horse had been calm and paying attention lighter cues would have been used.
    Northern and katec1991 like this.
         
        04-02-2013, 02:04 PM
      #26
    Weanling
    I'd also like to point out that just prior to this piece of video the owner had tried using softer cues(poorly timed) that the horse just ran through. The owner had in essence spent about 5 minutes desensitizing the horse to the cues, so it would only respond intermittently, and began totally ignoring the softer cues. I don't think Linda did too badly considering the mess she was handed at the time.
    Northern likes this.
         
        04-02-2013, 02:37 PM
      #27
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by equiniphile    
    She's trying to make the horse yield to pressure by backing up when the rope is swung around, but as she's giving no release when the horse does the right thing, he's ten shades of confused.
    Only 10 shades?????!!!!!!
    There are far quieter, easier, non confrontational ways to teach a horse to back up with just a click (optional), voice command and small hand signal. After a while you don't even need the voice command
    I see a horse here that's going to be very head shy
         
        04-02-2013, 02:37 PM
      #28
    Yearling
    I would be very interested in seeing the full video, then, Fargosgirl.

    But I do not understand why they would she let him drop his head and look around, if they wanted to keep his attention. And why when he did listen he was still hit? Still doesn't make sense.
         
        04-02-2013, 10:27 PM
      #29
    Super Moderator
    I have seen the full video several times. In it I saw a half blind horse that was totally overwhelmed by all the activity at this clinic. The horse kept seeking to be close to the handler for support as he was very fearful. He had to look around more than a normal horse so that he could see all around with his one eye. Every time he looked around he was punished for being "distracted".

    Linda Parelli just plain lost her temper and got abusive out of angst. All because she thought the poor horse was "making her look bad". The horse should have been put away, for a while, so that he could digest all the clinic craziness, IMO.
    Jolly Badger, maura, AlexS and 9 others like this.
         
        04-03-2013, 11:35 PM
      #30
    Foal
    The horse clearly never wanted to pay attention to her or the first handler in the first place. His head is looking all around everywhere else, (they're clearly not in his usual surroundings for this lesson). So she's asking him to do something before even getting his attention, something pretty advanced for his level, what it looks like. In this situation the best thing to have done was go back to basics on getting his attention. You can play a follow the leader game with your horse by moving all around the horse, pulling on the lead as gently as possible but as firm as necessary to turn his/her head towards you quickly. They're winning when they can keep up with you without you having to pull at all, so you progressively move around, back, forward, left, and right faster and faster. It's amazing how quickly they keep focused on you, eyes, ears, and nose. They really love this game too. It definitely seems more interesting than most other things around them. Once you get their full attention from this, which usually only takes a few minutes, you can more easily ask for a new command. I do this game before everything else with my horses. Very affective.
    Northern likes this.
         

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