What in the world is going on here? - Page 7 - The Horse Forum

 119Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #61 of 89 Old 04-10-2013, 03:20 PM
Started
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,975
• Horses: 0
[QUOTE=Annanoel;2185361]...I actually had an EX-trainer use one and broke her horses teeth when the buckle hit...QUOTE]

This is a very important bit of info for us; thanks! I heard of another horse who got nerve damage under his chin from the "whanging", also, & read of a chiropractor who told a PNH student that the whanging caused her horse to have chiro problems in its spine, because the head raises & back hollows & hind legs stiffen, to back up via whanging. (Thanks to poster who priorly brought this up, too!)

So there we have 3 separate issues: teeth, nerve damage, & chiro problems, from backing the horse via whanging/phase 3-4 rope technique. (Really, there are 5 phases, 4 is whanging with one's whole arm side-to-side, then 5 is the sending of energy down the rope with a firm wrist flick to "clunk" on the horse's chin.)

Based upon these issues, I plan on eliminating high-phase whanging unless the horse is endangering me to the point where there's no alternative, for me at my present level of skill/development.

In place of the increasing phases for backing, is the teaching of the horse to follow the feel of your hand under his chin, guiding him in a soft, level-headed, unstrained way, such as Bill Dorrance shows in his book, "True Horsemanship Through Feel", & Buck also takes the time to teach the horse this, extending to the horse learning to keep a float in the line whatever Buck asks him to do (sidepass, hindquarter, forequarter, etc.)
Annanoel and tbcrazy like this.

Last edited by Northern; 04-10-2013 at 03:30 PM.
Northern is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 89 Old 04-10-2013, 03:30 PM
Started
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,636
• Horses: 5
Finished watching it. All I can say is wth and that horse must have a head ache and a half! I'm surprised he didn't blow up and take her out. I know my mare would be up on her back legs if someone was nipping at her constantly like that. All I see there is fear and a situation where, if that horse was the sort to say F...you puny human, it could have got very nasty.
Not a cool thing for anyone to do IMO

I am her eyes. She is my wings. I am her voice. She is my spirit. I am her human. She is my horse.
EquineBovine is offline  
post #63 of 89 Old 04-10-2013, 07:56 PM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 282
• Horses: 0
[quote=Northern;2187345]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annanoel View Post
...I actually had an EX-trainer use one and broke her horses teeth when the buckle hit...QUOTE]

This is a very important bit of info for us; thanks! I heard of another horse who got nerve damage under his chin from the "whanging", also, & read of a chiropractor who told a PNH student that the whanging caused her horse to have chiro problems in its spine, because the head raises & back hollows & hind legs stiffen, to back up via whanging. (Thanks to poster who priorly brought this up, too!)

So there we have 3 separate issues: teeth, nerve damage, & chiro problems, from backing the horse via whanging/phase 3-4 rope technique. (Really, there are 5 phases, 4 is whanging with one's whole arm side-to-side, then 5 is the sending of energy down the rope with a firm wrist flick to "clunk" on the horse's chin.)

Based upon these issues, I plan on eliminating high-phase whanging unless the horse is endangering me to the point where there's no alternative, for me at my present level of skill/development.

In place of the increasing phases for backing, is the teaching of the horse to follow the feel of your hand under his chin, guiding him in a soft, level-headed, unstrained way, such as Bill Dorrance shows in his book, "True Horsemanship Through Feel", & Buck also takes the time to teach the horse this, extending to the horse learning to keep a float in the line whatever Buck asks him to do (sidepass, hindquarter, forequarter, etc.)
Great point, nice hearing that someone else agrees! I REALLY really dislike seeing a horse back up with its head up (unless it's a safety thing, in that case I don't care what they look like...). To me, that says that they are not using themselves properly- they can't get underneath themselves and push off with their back legs if their head is up, just not biomechanically possible. The back has to round for the back legs to be effective in backwards movement. Sure, you can get a horse to move fast backwards regardless of headset, but I like seeing a horse relaxed and slowly backing up to get a good stretch; it's also similar to lifting weights slowly or quickly (the slower the harder, and more effective an exercise it; the quicker the easier, but not necessarily as beneficial).

I've yet too see a horse stay somewhat round and back up when a rope is wiggling in their face- they IMMEDIATELY go upside down, and I agree 100% with back problems being a result. My equine chiropractor and I work together to develop groundwork exercises that complement his work- and wiggling the rope to back up is way up on the top of the "no no" list. He sees a lot of horses that have hyoid problems as well, that are "wiggled" at. Mine move off of my hips and body, depending on where I place them. Again, if safety is an issue, I'll do what I have to do to get a horse out of my space; when it's regular work and developing a softness, no wiggling :)
Northern likes this.
tbcrazy is offline  
post #64 of 89 Old 04-10-2013, 08:32 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Higgins, TX. YeeHaw!!
Posts: 22,057
• Horses: 24
Let us not forget either the other video that showed up the first time this vid was posted. You know, the one where LP had a halter hanging on a wood fence and was proceeding to show a "student" the optimum way to "snap" the lead so that the heavy duty snap would dole out the most pain on the horse...thus making it respond .

That particular video, of course, has since been the victim of a seek and destroy mission.
AlexS and Muppetgirl like this.

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
smrobs is offline  
post #65 of 89 Old 04-10-2013, 08:34 PM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 282
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs View Post
Let us not forget either the other video that showed up the first time this vid was posted. You know, the one where LP had a halter hanging on a wood fence and was proceeding to show a "student" the optimum way to "snap" the lead so that the heavy duty snap would dole out the most pain on the horse...thus making it respond .
SERIOUSLY?! Ugh.
tbcrazy is offline  
post #66 of 89 Old 04-10-2013, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
Started
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Who knows these days
Posts: 1,593
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs View Post
Let us not forget either the other video that showed up the first time this vid was posted. You know, the one where LP had a halter hanging on a wood fence and was proceeding to show a "student" the optimum way to "snap" the lead so that the heavy duty snap would dole out the most pain on the horse...thus making it respond .

That particular video, of course, has since been the victim of a seek and destroy mission.






^ They evolution of my emotions.

“Thoroughbreds are the best. They’re lighter, quicker and more
intelligent. The best of any breed is the Thoroughbred horse, the best
of that breed is better than any other breed." - George Morris
EliRose is offline  
post #67 of 89 Old 04-10-2013, 08:40 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Higgins, TX. YeeHaw!!
Posts: 22,057
• Horses: 24
Oh, yes. That is one video that I watched only once and will remember until the day I die. Talk about disgusting.

I mean, it's one thing for a truly experienced trainer to resort to pain when all else fails, but for anyone to purposefully teach a novice handler that....well, it's just deplorable IMHO.

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
smrobs is offline  
post #68 of 89 Old 04-10-2013, 08:41 PM
Started
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,975
• Horses: 0
That's the phase 5 which I described: wind-up & send the energy spiraling down rope to whack the fence/chuck the horse.

A student on that video segment asked Linda if it didn't tend to hurt the horse, & Linda replied that it's nothing compared to what another horse can/will do to an out-of-control beta horse. Seemed reasonable, till I learned of broken teeth, damaged nerves, & chiro problems.
Northern is offline  
post #69 of 89 Old 04-10-2013, 08:47 PM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 282
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern View Post
That's the phase 5 which I described: wind-up & send the energy spiraling down rope to whack the fence/chuck the horse.

A student on that video segment asked Linda if it didn't tend to hurt the horse, & Linda replied that it's nothing compared to what another horse can/will do to an out-of-control beta horse. Seemed reasonable, till I learned of broken teeth, damaged nerves, & chiro problems.
That's disgusting :/

When I think about "what another horse will do", I have yet to see a horse go after another one holding a chunk of metal with the idea of connecting with the other horse's chin... I can see a smack on the shoulder...neck...hip...but not chin...

That's where people get in trouble- they take a human action and project that "oh, in nature they will do that", in many cases where no, it is not what a horse would do in nature.
EliRose likes this.
tbcrazy is offline  
post #70 of 89 Old 04-10-2013, 09:17 PM
Started
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,975
• Horses: 0
Probably the argument of what another horse'd do to a horse should be left out of human handling issues, since horses have been known to be both light & perplexingly harsh on each other. (Of course, they've had to be predominantly light/supportive of each other's wellbeing in order to survive in wild herds).

Always, the rule for humans is to be as light/non-damaging as possible, to preserve their horses.
loosie likes this.
Northern is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TB in a QH World! Iseul Cutting and Team Penning 0 03-24-2013 08:11 PM
At Stud: AQHA/ABRA/IBHA Buckskin Dun, World and Res World Champ! All-Around! suncolorsranch Horse Breeding 17 03-24-2009 01:08 PM
Video of Stallion, SBR Formula One, AQHA Dunskin, World & Res World Champ suncolorsranch Horse Videos 9 02-08-2009 01:56 PM
@ Stud: AQHA-SBR Formula One ABRA World & Res World Cham suncolorsranch Tack and Equipment Classifieds 0 09-23-2008 01:51 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome