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What is your opinion on Parelli?

This is a discussion on What is your opinion on Parelli? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category
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    02-05-2011, 08:57 PM
  #111
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern    
Well, in Pat's own words, NHS is simply vaquero horsemanship, so the vaquero's prob pointed the nose away from the object, but legged the haunch toward it.
Other wise known as leg yeilding the horse towards something spooky!
Been around in common sense horsemanship for far longer then PP has been alive!
     
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    02-05-2011, 09:02 PM
  #112
Weanling
OK I don't mean to seem as if I am bashing Parelli and I do feel that the theory behind what they ask for is very sound, its just that its become far to marketed and cult like.

I feel in my opinion that horses that have been "Parellized" they seem to ONLY respond to that technique which very much limits the horses versitility to me, a well trained and behaved horse should be able to be handled or ridden by many different people of different levels and techniques of working with a horse. Now I know many Parelli horses that if you try and handle them in any other way they flip out and are totally confused. Now compare that to other horses that have been trained in differnet ways and they seem for more able to accept other people in their handling and/or riding.
     
    02-05-2011, 09:09 PM
  #113
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by faye    
Other wise known as leg yeilding the horse towards something spooky!
Been around in common sense horsemanship for far longer then PP has been alive!
As I mentioned, it was entirely possible that it was around before Pat. However, if the Parelli steamtrain makes that knowledge more accessible then power to the people who benefit from that knowledge.

It is my belief that it is the tunnel visioned ones that give Parelli the name it currently has.

Did he invent all of the techniques? No. But has he delivered them to a greater audience? Yes. I guess my main point is that it doesn't really matter where you learn an effective technique from, as long as it is effective.
     
    02-05-2011, 09:17 PM
  #114
Super Moderator
The method you speak of to get horses over spooky thing is very much NOT a PP innovation.

I used this method for more than 50 years and I don't claim to have discovered it. No later than 1960 or 1961 I started using this method when I found quite by accident that a leg yielding maneuver would get about any horse focused on me instead of the spooky object.

It has nothing to do with giving the horse comfort. It has everything to do a horse being able to focus on only one thing at a time and I want that thing to be me. I want him to have more respect for me than his fear of anything.

I watch a horse's ears and the second that ear away from the object comes back to me, I know I have him. I will then go back and forth several times until I can use minimal leg pressure and the horse will go with his body straight or nearly straight, bring that ear back to me and not waiver from a straight path.

PP was just a child, John Lyons had never held a clinic and the only clinician that was in existence then was Monte Foreman -- a man well ahead of his time.

As far a modern-day Clinicians, I would have to go with Clinton Anderson and his newer set of DVDs. They are much better than his earlier ones. He actually shows horses while they are spoiled and misbehaving and show methods to straighten them out. He does not get lost in details and micro-management but is straight forward and effective. He does get a little carried away with his flexing, but it for sure gives you the ability to stop any horse in his tracks before he can become dangerous.

I know several people that have gotten some or all of CAs DVDs and have gotten along surprisingly well considering they knew little to start with.

CA started decades after PP, but he has quickly become one of the most followed clinicians in the country.

Whoever said that their PP instructor was an accomplished horseman before joining the PP bandwagon got it right. I know two PP 3 star instructors (well one quit after getting enough of his own students) and both were good trainers long before they jumped on the PP bandwagon. They decided he did such a good job of promoting that they wanted to use him to get students for them. It worked. They got more student and could charge a lot more.
     
    02-05-2011, 09:18 PM
  #115
Green Broke
I learnt to leg yeild horses toward spooky thing from Ponyclub, they used BHS methods which according to PP is an evil restrictive method.

SeeWhat I hate about all types of "Natural" horsemanship (not just PP, butMR and others too) is that they all seemhell bent on sitting on a horse in one session, or fixing a problem in one session (catwalk issue with PP, Loading problem horses by MR etc). What ever happened to taking your time? To slowly and surely.
Reeco has been away now for 3 weeks, they havent sat on him yet but when they do it will be when he is happy and settled with it, no need to force the issue!

Stan when we first bought him took 3 hours toload and then only went in the trailer when his back end was picked up by 4 burley men! Took me several weeks but I had him walking in first time every time, never stressed him, never worried him, never stressed him. I made loading something he wanted to do, a pleasent experiance for him (to the point where he would load himself and refuse to come out).
     
    02-05-2011, 09:22 PM
  #116
Started
[quote:] I feel in my opinion that horses that have been "Parellized" they seem to ONLY respond to that technique which very much limits the horses versitility to me, a well trained and behaved horse should be able to be handled or ridden by many different people of different levels and techniques of working with a horse.[/quote]

This complaint has been posted a lot, but I've never seen the phenom, & it makes no sense to me. Any horse only has the handler's "feel" to go on, secondarily, the timing, techniques & balance that all add up to "savvy". If a handler first feels of the horse so that the horse can feel back to him, & the handler continues to feel of his horse so that the horse can continue to feel back, they'll partner up fine. Parelli can't be blamed for another person's not getting with his horse.
     
    02-05-2011, 09:27 PM
  #117
Green Broke
Gosh, I said it once, I said it twice, now I will say it a third time:

I am not saying that PP invented the method. Read what I have written please. I said that I heard about it from someone who heard about it from someone else who apparently heard it from some PP source. Mmm-kay?

Just using it as an example of

A.) Although not necessarily original information, the knowledge is more widespread thanks to an effective marketing campaign.

B.) Just because a method is 'Parelli' it shouldn't necessarily be discounted purely through association.

As I said originally: If it makes sense to me and is presented to me by someone whose judgement I trust, then I will try it.

As also I said in my original original post, I just haven't been presented with a situation in horse training that I didn't feel I could handle with the knowledge I have obtained from several different trainers of the old school variety.
     
    02-05-2011, 09:32 PM
  #118
Started
[QUOTE=Cherie;918063]
He does get a little carried away with his flexing, QUOTE]

You gave me a good belly laugh there! Understatement of the century!

How about every horse he rides being constantly behind the vertical?
     
    02-05-2011, 09:36 PM
  #119
Trained
Whoever said that their PP instructor was an accomplished horseman before joining the PP bandwagon got it right. I know two PP 3 star instructors (well one quit after getting enough of his own students) and both were good trainers long before they jumped on the PP bandwagon. They decided he did such a good job of promoting that they wanted to use him to get students for them. It worked. They got more student and could charge a lot more.

That is exactly why I think he did it in the beginning, and yes, it is working. Smart on his part, IMO.
This complaint has been posted a lot, but I've never seen the phenom, & it makes no sense to me. Any horse only has the handler's "feel" to go on, secondarily, the timing, techniques & balance that all add up to "savvy". If a handler first feels of the horse so that the horse can feel back to him, & the handler continues to feel of his horse so that the horse can continue to feel back, they'll partner up fine. Parelli can't be blamed for another person's not getting with his horse.

Northern-I think peoples complaints come from the whole "feely" "partner stuff.


THere are some of us, who yeah, want to be a partner of sorts, but I guess we think the horse should be more of a silent partner. Yeah-I am more than happy to listen to how my horse thinks he would like to do it....bottom line-he will do what I ask, when I ask. Hopefully, I will learn to ask in a way he likes, at least some of the time. Frankly, I cringe when I hear about "joining up". Just seems hokey to me, and I think that is some peoples impression of the whole "feeling" thing.

Sorry of this comes up all funky letter sizes-I have NO idea why it keeps going from big to micro mini...lol

     
    02-05-2011, 09:43 PM
  #120
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern    
This complaint has been posted a lot, but I've never seen the phenom, & it makes no sense to me. Any horse only has the handler's "feel" to go on, secondarily, the timing, techniques & balance that all add up to "savvy". If a handler first feels of the horse so that the horse can feel back to him, & the handler continues to feel of his horse so that the horse can continue to feel back, they'll partner up fine. Parelli can't be blamed for another person's not getting with his horse.
Sorry but in the above phrase "if the handler first feels of his horse" makes no sense however you read it. Feels what from his horse? Or do you mean sends feelings to the horse? Or do you mean to get a feel for the horses mental state? Please clarify

However back onto what you were saying about the methods themselves. My horse will respond to anyone. I can hand the reins to a complete stranger and he will obey them, he will lead just as well for them as he will for me. I've handed the leadrope for my 3yrold pony to my brother who is completely non horsey and my baby behaved and walked with him just as well for him as he did for me. No relearning of respect needed just hand over leadrope and go. This is because he has been taught manners and that humans are boss no matter how big or small (Reeco enjoys having his knees brushed by 4yrold kids and wouldnt even dream of raiding thier pockets, he will give them gooey eyes for mints but he would never search thier pockets).

I know full well that should I be injured or in hospital ANYONE will be able to handle him, he will behave and he will be an absolute pleasure to deal with in all situations. I pride myself on the fact that my ponies manners and general behavior is commented on in a positive manner wherever we go. My last yard owner couldnt believe that I could get up on a box and clip a 3yrold ponies ears whilst he was loose in his stable (didnt bother with a head collar as he doesnt need it). Or that 2 days after moving stan to that yard I was happy for someone else to deal with him when I had to go home for a few days (no need for them to get to know him, he would behaveno if's buts or maye's).

I've yet to meet a parelliized horse that I would be happy handing over to someone in the event of an emergency. Infact I'd be downright mortified by the behavior that is seemingly deemed as allowed!
     

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