What's with all the haters? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

 1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 152 Old 07-23-2011, 01:13 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 5,695
• Horses: 3
I think you can like the parelli methods with out liking the man.

Gypsy & Scout <3
Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. ~Albert Einstein
gypsygirl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 152 Old 07-23-2011, 01:14 PM
Started
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,324
• Horses: 0
There is a specific reason we use the tools we use.
Spirithorse is offline  
post #13 of 152 Old 07-23-2011, 01:15 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,289
• Horses: 0
Here's my .2 cents as to why NH invites so much negative attention -

First of all, by segregating themselves from other horseman by calling themselves "Natural Horseman", thereby implying the rest of us are unnatural.

By making it seem like "natural horsemanship" is something special, separate and apart rather than just the principles of good horsmanship. Understanding the horse's body language and herd behavior, training without pain or fear and using pressure and release have been around since Xenophon, and good trainers have been using them since then. Why the need to brand it as something new?

The PT Barnum type marketing approach and product branding of some of the current NH gurus.

The exploititive nature of some of the NH trainers that has lead many novices to believe that they can learn to train horses from watching DVDs.

To sum up, I find the principles of the so called "NH" to be interesting and useful tools for any trainer's tool box. I find some of the current NH trainers to be very interesting, well worth watching and learning from, and incorporate some of their ideas into my own work with horses.

I find the business and marketing phenomenon known as Natural Horsemanship to be ridiculous and some times dangerous.

So that's "what's with all the haters."
maura is offline  
post #14 of 152 Old 07-23-2011, 01:21 PM
Doe
Weanling
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Uk
Posts: 394
• Horses: 0
What I find fascinating is how people insist on differentiation.
There is an NH subsection to discuss NH.

All the NH trainers work on negative reinforcement. They just package it a certain way.

The training methods I see discussed in the non-NH forum are also based on negative reinforcement.

So other than packaging whats the difference?

Posted this at the same time as Mauras above - not meaning to duplicate, but somewhat similar thought process.)

Last edited by Doe; 07-23-2011 at 01:23 PM.
Doe is offline  
post #15 of 152 Old 07-23-2011, 01:26 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: In the Twiggs
Posts: 1,724
• Horses: 3
Smile :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by horsesavvy View Post
why is this section of the forum crawling with haters? So many of the posts I see in here bash nh methods. I thought this was suppossed to be a section to discuss nh? Come on, people, let's all chill out. Just because someone doesn't share your opinion on horse training doesn't give you the right to bash them or their training methods. Can we please be civilized and show a little respect for both our opinions and eachother?


Yes ma"am!!!!! Preach it!
sierrams1123 is offline  
post #16 of 152 Old 07-23-2011, 01:44 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,262
• Horses: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by palominolover View Post
*sigh*... I''m not trying to get into an argument, but my trainers at my barn use Parelli quite successfully. Sure they don't buy all his gadgets or whatever, but they use his method =)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Horse View Post
You see this kind of comment is where the problems start maybe, from both sides..
... .
Dear Golden

Are you referring to palominolover's post #8 as where the problems start, or the post she quoted, #5 by Tennessee ? Just wondering, I've been trying a half hour to multi quote all three and can't get it, either miss one, or the embedded quote doesn't come through.

So I just want to understand which you are referencing as the possible trouble starter, the one who first took a stab, or the one who defended?

Thanks,
Ann
anndankev is offline  
post #17 of 152 Old 07-23-2011, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
Weanling
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 493
• Horses: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by maura View Post
Here's my .2 cents as to why NH invites so much negative attention -

First of all, by segregating themselves from other horseman by calling themselves "Natural Horseman", thereby implying the rest of us are unnatural.

By making it seem like "natural horsemanship" is something special, separate and apart rather than just the principles of good horsmanship. Understanding the horse's body language and herd behavior, training without pain or fear and using pressure and release have been around since Xenophon, and good trainers have been using them since then. Why the need to brand it as something new?

The PT Barnum type marketing approach and product branding of some of the current NH gurus.

The exploititive nature of some of the NH trainers that has lead many novices to believe that they can learn to train horses from watching DVDs.

To sum up, I find the principles of the so called "NH" to be interesting and useful tools for any trainer's tool box. I find some of the current NH trainers to be very interesting, well worth watching and learning from, and incorporate some of their ideas into my own work with horses.

I find the business and marketing phenomenon known as Natural Horsemanship to be ridiculous and some times dangerous.

So that's "what's with all the haters."
Maura, this is awesome :) Exactly what I've been looking for!

I don't want people to think I'm trying to start arguements, I just think we all need to cool it a little and take the time to learn more about eachother's training methods before we go around making gerneralizations.

But if you want to know what I think, I agree with Maura (see quote). I believe there is a middle ground when it comes to training. A well rounded trainer will incorporate ideas from both NH and other training styles in their programs and work with a horse's natural instincts instead of working against them.

I want to thank all of you so far for not starting any huge arguements I'm glad the peace is being kept!

The Horse: And God took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath over it and created the horse. -Bedouin Legend
HorseSavvy is offline  
post #18 of 152 Old 07-23-2011, 03:39 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 12,475
• Horses: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by anndankev View Post
Dear Golden

Are you referring to palominolover's post #8 as where the problems start, or the post she quoted, #5 by Tennessee ? Just wondering, I've been trying a half hour to multi quote all three and can't get it, either miss one, or the embedded quote doesn't come through.

So I just want to understand which you are referencing as the possible trouble starter, the one who first took a stab, or the one who defended?

Thanks,
Ann
I was referring to the *SIGH* start to #8, and I'm not saying that is where the trouble started, I was trying to say that it just sounded to me like the sort of comment where it could start to go downhill.
Golden Horse is online now  
post #19 of 152 Old 07-23-2011, 04:17 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,262
• Horses: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Horse View Post
.... where it could start to go downhill.

Dear Golden

Now I understand. This one I think started at the beginning.

I'm just so happy to hear from you, I've been feeling like and outcast thread killer here lately.
anndankev is offline  
post #20 of 152 Old 07-23-2011, 05:27 PM
Doe
Weanling
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Uk
Posts: 394
• Horses: 0
Quote:
All the NH trainers work on negative reinforcement. They just package it a certain way.

The training methods I see discussed in the non-NH forum are also based on negative reinforcement.

So other than packaging whats the difference?
I'd love to hear people's perspective on this question...............
Doe is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome