What's with all the haters? - Page 2
   

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What's with all the haters?

This is a discussion on What's with all the haters? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        07-23-2011, 01:13 PM
      #11
    Trained
    I think you can like the parelli methods with out liking the man.
         
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        07-23-2011, 01:14 PM
      #12
    Started
    There is a specific reason we use the tools we use.
         
        07-23-2011, 01:15 PM
      #13
    Banned
    Here's my .2 cents as to why NH invites so much negative attention -

    First of all, by segregating themselves from other horseman by calling themselves "Natural Horseman", thereby implying the rest of us are unnatural.

    By making it seem like "natural horsemanship" is something special, separate and apart rather than just the principles of good horsmanship. Understanding the horse's body language and herd behavior, training without pain or fear and using pressure and release have been around since Xenophon, and good trainers have been using them since then. Why the need to brand it as something new?

    The PT Barnum type marketing approach and product branding of some of the current NH gurus.

    The exploititive nature of some of the NH trainers that has lead many novices to believe that they can learn to train horses from watching DVDs.

    To sum up, I find the principles of the so called "NH" to be interesting and useful tools for any trainer's tool box. I find some of the current NH trainers to be very interesting, well worth watching and learning from, and incorporate some of their ideas into my own work with horses.

    I find the business and marketing phenomenon known as Natural Horsemanship to be ridiculous and some times dangerous.

    So that's "what's with all the haters."
         
        07-23-2011, 01:21 PM
      #14
    Doe
    Weanling
    What I find fascinating is how people insist on differentiation.
    There is an NH subsection to discuss NH.

    All the NH trainers work on negative reinforcement. They just package it a certain way.

    The training methods I see discussed in the non-NH forum are also based on negative reinforcement.

    So other than packaging whats the difference?

    Posted this at the same time as Mauras above - not meaning to duplicate, but somewhat similar thought process.)
         
        07-23-2011, 01:26 PM
      #15
    Banned
    Smile :)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by horsesavvy    
    why is this section of the forum crawling with haters? So many of the posts I see in here bash nh methods. I thought this was suppossed to be a section to discuss nh? Come on, people, let's all chill out. Just because someone doesn't share your opinion on horse training doesn't give you the right to bash them or their training methods. Can we please be civilized and show a little respect for both our opinions and eachother?


    Yes ma"am!!!!! Preach it!
         
        07-23-2011, 01:44 PM
      #16
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by palominolover    
    *sigh*... I''m not trying to get into an argument, but my trainers at my barn use Parelli quite successfully. Sure they don't buy all his gadgets or whatever, but they use his method =)
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Golden Horse    
    You see this kind of comment is where the problems start maybe, from both sides..
    ... .
    Dear Golden

    Are you referring to palominolover's post #8 as where the problems start, or the post she quoted, #5 by Tennessee ? Just wondering, I've been trying a half hour to multi quote all three and can't get it, either miss one, or the embedded quote doesn't come through.

    So I just want to understand which you are referencing as the possible trouble starter, the one who first took a stab, or the one who defended?

    Thanks,
    Ann
         
        07-23-2011, 03:03 PM
      #17
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maura    
    Here's my .2 cents as to why NH invites so much negative attention -

    First of all, by segregating themselves from other horseman by calling themselves "Natural Horseman", thereby implying the rest of us are unnatural.

    By making it seem like "natural horsemanship" is something special, separate and apart rather than just the principles of good horsmanship. Understanding the horse's body language and herd behavior, training without pain or fear and using pressure and release have been around since Xenophon, and good trainers have been using them since then. Why the need to brand it as something new?

    The PT Barnum type marketing approach and product branding of some of the current NH gurus.

    The exploititive nature of some of the NH trainers that has lead many novices to believe that they can learn to train horses from watching DVDs.

    To sum up, I find the principles of the so called "NH" to be interesting and useful tools for any trainer's tool box. I find some of the current NH trainers to be very interesting, well worth watching and learning from, and incorporate some of their ideas into my own work with horses.

    I find the business and marketing phenomenon known as Natural Horsemanship to be ridiculous and some times dangerous.

    So that's "what's with all the haters."
    Maura, this is awesome :) Exactly what I've been looking for!

    I don't want people to think I'm trying to start arguements, I just think we all need to cool it a little and take the time to learn more about eachother's training methods before we go around making gerneralizations.

    But if you want to know what I think, I agree with Maura (see quote). I believe there is a middle ground when it comes to training. A well rounded trainer will incorporate ideas from both NH and other training styles in their programs and work with a horse's natural instincts instead of working against them.

    I want to thank all of you so far for not starting any huge arguements I'm glad the peace is being kept!
         
        07-23-2011, 03:39 PM
      #18
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anndankev    
    Dear Golden

    Are you referring to palominolover's post #8 as where the problems start, or the post she quoted, #5 by Tennessee ? Just wondering, I've been trying a half hour to multi quote all three and can't get it, either miss one, or the embedded quote doesn't come through.

    So I just want to understand which you are referencing as the possible trouble starter, the one who first took a stab, or the one who defended?

    Thanks,
    Ann
    I was referring to the *SIGH* start to #8, and I'm not saying that is where the trouble started, I was trying to say that it just sounded to me like the sort of comment where it could start to go downhill.
         
        07-23-2011, 04:17 PM
      #19
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Golden Horse    
    .... where it could start to go downhill.

    Dear Golden

    Now I understand. This one I think started at the beginning.

    I'm just so happy to hear from you, I've been feeling like and outcast thread killer here lately.
         
        07-23-2011, 05:27 PM
      #20
    Doe
    Weanling
    Quote:
    All the NH trainers work on negative reinforcement. They just package it a certain way.

    The training methods I see discussed in the non-NH forum are also based on negative reinforcement.

    So other than packaging whats the difference?
    I'd love to hear people's perspective on this question...............
         

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