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why shake the leadrope to back your horse explained

8K views 33 replies 20 participants last post by  Whisper22 
#1 ·
I've seen this question come up a bunch of times, and it seems most people don't understand why this is taught to horses. Shaking your horse back has a practical purpose, it comes from Vaquero horsemanship which is the foundation of NH. It's essential for when you're doctoring cattle. Here's a picture where I'm working on a calf with my horse. I'm holding the calf down, you can see my horse has stepped up to give me slack in my lariat, the dark rope is my mecate lead that's part of my reins. I need the rope loose so I can get the loop end off the calf's head and put it on it's front feet. You don't want the rope on his neck more than you have to and when you're done you can let him loose and he'll simply kick the rope off. So once I have the front feet in the loop I shake my mecate rope and my horse will backup and retighten the lariat for me. That's where shaking them back comes from, I'm holding the calf so I can't get up and back my horse. Also if the rope gets a little loose and the cow tries to kick free that will shake the rope and my horse will step back and make it a little tighter.

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#3 ·
Maybe practical for that purpose but not for 99% of what an every day horse person needs to do with their horse.

For instance, a tie down roper wants their horse to back until the pressure is tight on the rope. That would be highly impractical and even dangerous in other areas of horse handling.

I step into my horse, he backs. If I need him to back (such as out of the trailer or tie stall), I simply say 'back'.
 
#6 ·
That's very interesting.. I like hearing and learning about how things are what they are, especially to do with older methods of ranching and whatnot.



I agree.

Though I've spent all this time teaching my horse to stand still and trust the handler and those around him.. I don't want him mis-interpreting a shake of the rope to back. I prefer to voice it or use my body language.

Like I said in another thread, a parelli handler was trying to teach my horse to back (he was just showing me how any horse is trainable to the methods) and my horse got very frightened and very confused then frustrated and he backed, but it was more like a shuffle where he was leaning on his hinds rather than stepping. I don't dislike the shaking of the rope, I just didn't find it very helpful.

Maybe one day we'll try it again, but right now I have no need for it. I'm very open to trying new things with my horse :)
 
#8 ·
My horse was taught to back up by shaking the rope, but, as the four phases were used, he now backs up if I just raise a finger and say "back up!" if necessary - as a warning that I will start shaking the rope with my palm in a couple of seconds.

But the origins of the rope shaking is a very interesting fact to know, thanks!
 
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#20 ·
My horse was taught to back up by shaking the rope, but, as the four phases were used, he now backs up if I just raise a finger and say "back up!" if necessary - as a warning that I will start shaking the rope with my palm in a couple of seconds.

That's helpful to know - I am still working on backing up with CAs four phases for backing up (mostly wiggling/shaking the rope), and would like to work toward a better warning.

Thanks for the info Mike, it's great to learn the origins of strategies we use.
 
#9 ·
It was interesting to read, Mike. However I still don't get why you have to shake it to basically whack the horse's jaw with it like some NH trainers do (not saying every trainer does/teach it this way)?

I also think mls brought some good points.
 
#10 · (Edited)
It's a handy wee trick to have if you're ever in a situation where you need to be operating a gate, have the horse in one hand while holding onto something else, or some other sort of multitasking activity. Also useful for awkward bloody gates where if you had to move your body into your horse to get it to step back out of the way, it would be even more awkward. I just wiggle the rope at my horse and say "back" and back she goes.

Edit: There was no "whacking" to teach her this. She already knew how to back and I just attached the wiggley rope to my other back command (stepping towards her chest) until she understood the meaning of the wiggley rope and would back off the wiggley rope alone. Easy. And not traumatic at all.
 
#11 ·
Edit: There was no "whacking" to teach her this. She already knew how to back and I just attached the wiggley rope to my other back command (stepping towards her chest) until she understood the meaning of the wiggley rope and would back off the wiggley rope alone. Easy. And not traumatic at all.
I'd be willing to try this way.. :)
 
#19 ·
Chick, exactly.

A horse that has been properly trained to the rope (which, BTW, if they are afraid of it, they have not been properly trained), is an invaluable tool to a working cowboy (or girl :wink:). To be able to down a calf/steer/cow on the rope, tie off to the horn, and step off to go down to doctor it is a commonly taught, and much sought after ability in a good horse.

We do it a bit differently though as we don't ride with mecate sets. We call the horse forward by pulling on the actual rope, smooching, and saying "Come here". To stop them is a simple "Whoa" and to back them up is "Back up".

Mike that is interesting. Even though I knew about the roping thing, I never really connected it with the *******ized NH version. I guess you learn something new every day.
 
#22 ·
Do you mean you don't use a halter and lead to catch your horse, or do you not leave your halter and lead on under your bridle when you ride?

I just want to clarify that I never ride with a halter under my bridle. When I am talking about my lead I am talking about one, the mecate tail on a snaffle or hackamore setup, or two, my get down rope which is tied around his neck and ran through a bosalita.
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#23 ·
My understanding of it is that everything you're doing "on-lead" during the seven games is setting the foundation for doing the same activities at liberty. So while it seems very exaggerated on-lead and while first learning, the end result is a subtle communication between horse and person.

The way I was taught PNH backing with the rope wiggling, we DO use body language as well...facial expression, body stance, etc. I was also taught to hold my finger up while going through the backing phases (phases as necessary) which makes a "no-no" type gesture. This ends up being the cue for backing at liberty (the no-no gesture).

The same applies for the motion used to collect the line back up to retrieve your horse. Using that same motion at liberty is the cue for the horse to come back in to you.
 
#24 ·
I worked with a several horses that just didn´t understand shaking the leadrope. If the pressure was raised to uncomfortable the only answer was elevating head and in some cases step forward instead of backing up.
My mare was tought to back up by shaking the leadrope and now she reacts on raised hand and voice command, so there definitely are horses suitable with this method.
However many people don´t like it and want me to teach their horses to back up by different means, so I use waving a carrot stick towards horses chest (starting far enough for horse to see what I´m doing, then slowly approach until the carrot stick is bumping the horse and finally increasing the pressure until the horse answers).
Well, every horse needs an individual approach.
 
#25 ·
I find it incredibly easy to use a wiggly rope to back them up. It's effective for my younger students because there is no strength required. The clip only hits under the jaw if the horse is completely ignoring. Often when teaching I will team it with another method such as carrot stick. I like it because I can have that strength to back it up if need be.
 
#29 ·
OK, thanks. So a bosalita is used with a bit set up, like a cavesson? And the get down rope could also be used to apply some nose/poll pressure?

What would be the pros and cons of running the get down line behind the curb strap and not putting the bosalita on?

Thanks again
 
#30 ·
No problem!

I imagine that running the get down in between the curbstrap and chin would be uncomfortable for the horse while the bit is in use. Also running it through the curb would kinda defeat the porpose of using one at all. The idea is not to lead the horse by the bridle reins to preserve the mouth. If it was ran through the curb then it would interfere with the bit while leading.

I can't really think of any pros...
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#31 ·
Oh, just using the bosalia alone is for a horse that is a true bridle horse, the step before would be using the bridle bit a long with the bosalita setup with a mecate in the two rein. So once the horse graduates to just the bridle bit then the mecate is taken off the bosal and used as a get down tied around the neck and ran through the bosalita.

I hope that makes sense...when I get home I will post some pics.
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#33 ·
When I was in school we had to study Algebra. It didn't take very long for me to realize that unless a person was going to be an engineer or astro-physicist or something along those lines you really don't need as much algebra as was required. The purpose of the algebra was to teach the student to THINK and solve problems. That's similar to why you would teach a horse to back when you put life in the lead rope. You're teaching the horse to look for the release of the pressure. Every time you teach a horse to give to pressure you're making it easier the next time. If you're not getting the response you want from the horse and you're giving up then you're making it more difficult the next time. ANY horse can learn to back with a wiggle in the rope. You don't have to have a clip hitting the horse in the jaw and you really don't have to escallate very much either. I have no hardware at all on any of my halters and I don't want to spend a lot of time swinging a rope around either. I use wwhatever methods work to get the horse backing up in addition to the wiggle and then I use less and less until all I need is the wiggle.
 
#34 ·
A trainer I used once, used this method, as does most everyone I come across. The trainer was really big on making the horse she's training as soft as possible. In the beginning the horse needed quite a bit of force, as she had very little ground manners. As time went on, the amount of wiggle needed in the rope was an indication of her progress. It made a lot of sense for training purposes. That was not the ONLY method of backing that she was taught either, there were at least 3 that were included in her training.
 
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