Your suggestions for Parelli or Anderson or any other "good" ones? - Page 4
 
 

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Your suggestions for Parelli or Anderson or any other "good" ones?

This is a discussion on Your suggestions for Parelli or Anderson or any other "good" ones? within the Natural Horsemanship forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Parelli mistakes
  • Why would people use parelli to retrain a horse

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    08-23-2012, 12:20 PM
  #31
Yearling
My suggestion for Parelli is no. Don't. Aside Amish, I have retrained many Parelli horses.

I've never gotten any other "natural horsemanship" horses to retrain other than Parelli, and when the Parelli horses come to me, they've been confused and trashed.

I don't follow the natural horsemanship people but I have heard good things about Lyons.

I've never gotten in a Lyons horse or a Ga Wa Ni horse or an Anderson horse in to retrain, which makes me believe that there is something plausible to their training, and it's only a matter of opinion on which one you like better. However, I have had many trashed and ruined Parelli horses in. So stay away from that guy.

ETA: I don't know what Parelli does to the horses that the other programs don't do. I don't study them and frankly, when I did try to study Parelli, none of it made sense, I saw a confused horse (off his professional videos) and the DVD made me so ill I had to turn it off. Parelli personally told a client of ours to put down her horse because he was so dangerous. He was retrained by my instructor and is now a 5ft jumper in Florida.

I don't train anymore except for my own horse. But the worst ones I've had to retrain were the Amish and Parelli horses. Never had a horse from another natural horsemanship program come in.
HorseCrazyTeen likes this.
     
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    08-23-2012, 01:53 PM
  #32
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
Hi Essex girl!!!!
Love your art work by the way
Yes you are right - information is information unfortunately there is so much crap out there - 13 year old girls giving advice on Youtube etc and if you know nothing then how do you know what's good and whats bad?
A lot of people are making bad choices and their horse usually pays the price for it
I did find the website interesting - he doesn't try to say that its possible to do some things with all horses - which I like, he seems to have a similar style to Hempfling, especially with his thoughts on round penning (done incorrectly) Apart for the people in the UK who bought into the Monty Roberts/Parelli thing when it hit the country the US style of round penning is pretty alien, horsemen/women managed to successfully produce safe sound riding horses in a calm, kind way for many many years without it so continue to do so. It is not the one solution to everything. I also liked his comments on the 'respect' thing - again it doesn't all come down to lack of respect, its often down to the horse just not having a clue what you're asking for because your direction and previous training was totally lacking
I can't say that I would agree with all his ideas but he doesn't seem to have that forceful, bully boy approach so I'm good with that
Hope your horse(s) are coping with all the rain you're getting over there - its going to make for a very muddy winter!!
Hey,
Thanks for the compliment about my artwork.

Yes, there is a lot of crap out there, and I guess its down to the individual to question and separate for themselves the good from the bad.
I agree with you about the bad advice and that horses pay every time for their owners decisions, (whether good or bad in the owner’s mind.) For instance, there are people in favour of clicker training and there are those who are dead against it and both get results, so WHO IS ANYONE to judge and say YOU ARE WRONG just because they THINK so, even if you are 13 or 60! Experience is good but it doesn’t necessarily make you good. There’s a girl on youtube called Eva Roemaat and she’s only 19 and IMO she's a better horsewoman than many older people I’ve come across who’ve been around horses their whole life!
NO predator human is THE HORSE GOD to judge right or wrong. These beautiful animals pay for our want to be with them, to ride them, to make our mistakes with them etc.
However, IMO even if someone thinks they know everything or ‘enough’ to give advice, I absolutely, 100%, believe in thinking that you should still have the open-minded attitude that you will never know enough, that ONE'S opinion is not THE absolute definite. ‘Real knowledge is to know the extent of your ignorance!’

And yeah, there are some things I don’t agree with on that website, but you know, I respect that’s his way how he does things and Im not going to email him and give him negative unwanted advice or argue with him and tell him he’s an idiot simply because his way isn’t my way. Because I know I’ll never know it all or know enough, because at the end of the day, I’m just a human.

Oh and I don’t live in the UK anymore. I live in the scorching Med and it's way too hot out here but I really would love some rain!!!
     
    08-23-2012, 03:53 PM
  #33
Super Moderator
good & bad advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr    
Hey,
Thanks for the compliment about my artwork.

Yes, there is a lot of crap out there, and I guess its down to the individual to question and separate for themselves the good from the bad.
I agree with you about the bad advice and that horses pay every time for their owners decisions, (whether good or bad in the owner’s mind.) For instance, there are people in favour of clicker training and there are those who are dead against it and both get results, so WHO IS ANYONE to judge and say YOU ARE WRONG just because they THINK so, even if you are 13 or 60! Experience is good but it doesn’t necessarily make you good. There’s a girl on youtube called Eva Roemaat and she’s only 19 and IMO she's a better horsewoman than many older people I’ve come across who’ve been around horses their whole life!
NO predator human is THE HORSE GOD to judge right or wrong. These beautiful animals pay for our want to be with them, to ride them, to make our mistakes with them etc.
However, IMO even if someone thinks they know everything or ‘enough’ to give advice, I absolutely, 100%, believe in thinking that you should still have the open-minded attitude that you will never know enough, that ONE'S opinion is not THE absolute definite. ‘Real knowledge is to know the extent of your ignorance!’

And yeah, there are some things I don’t agree with on that website, but you know, I respect that’s his way how he does things and Im not going to email him and give him negative unwanted advice or argue with him and tell him he’s an idiot simply because his way isn’t my way. Because I know I’ll never know it all or know enough, because at the end of the day, I’m just a human.

Oh and I don’t live in the UK anymore. I live in the scorching Med and it's way too hot out here but I really would love some rain!!!
I think I have been using 'clicker training' forever - long before anyone ever called it that!!!
I admire Eva Roemaat - she's a great example of someone giving options and showing how much can be achieved using a particular style. If people want to do something 'different' then why not if its what makes them and their horse happy and no one is getting hurt. All good to them. There is a young man from the Netherlands called Bart Driessen who was having lessons with her this year - he doesn't give out instruction or advice and rides mostly bareback & in a halter though he did have jumping lessons when he was younger - he is such a talented rider and can do more riding like that than most people could ever achieve in a saddle & bridle.
Don't blame you for moving to the Med - apart from the dry spell - at least you aren't going rusty in all that rain!!
     
    08-23-2012, 06:55 PM
  #34
Banned
I know Bart Driessen's channel. I think he is great. And Tosca is just beautiful! He also likes Rick Gore just as I do. And some others too and I'm lucky to be in the same facebook group as him, but I won't say much more because I have no idea if he would be ok about me talking about him, so I won't say anything. All I could ever say about him is praise

But re: the rust. We do get rust unfortunately because we live right by the sea (salty air) and I'm on the coast. Not complaining though! I love where I live.
     
    08-24-2012, 01:37 PM
  #35
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr    
I know Bart Driessen's channel. I think he is great. And Tosca is just beautiful! He also likes Rick Gore just as I do. And some others too and I'm lucky to be in the same facebook group as him, but I won't say much more because I have no idea if he would be ok about me talking about him, so I won't say anything. All I could ever say about him is praise

But re: the rust. We do get rust unfortunately because we live right by the sea (salty air) and I'm on the coast. Not complaining though! I love where I live.
Yes she is a lovely horse - a great example of how an arabxfriesan can work - these arabfriesan crosses sometimes seem to go all the wrong way and the horses look quite ugly.
Yes I know he is an RG fan - I don't hold that against him!!! I know he's also a fan of Blaha & Hempfling who I think he is very much like in his quiet body language, relationship with his horse and amazing balance and lightness. He did learn to ride when he was young bareback and bridleless which has helped him a lot.
I do keep up on his progress as I think he'll go far but as far as I'm concerned his personal life - like everyone elses is his own - he doesn't put out any sort of advice or opinion on his channel so deserves his privacy!!!
     
    08-25-2012, 05:27 AM
  #36
Yearling
I do not like Parelli! I tried doing Parelli once and had to listen to a bunch of mumbo-jumbo, test everything on people first, right brain-left brain garbage before he and Linda even got to the horses. (And in the videos it is mostly Linda and almost never Pat). I have heard that many of the horses they train have problems that can make them dangerous at times.

To be fair, Pat Parelli is a much better horseman than his wife, and in fact if he were the one giving the instructions (and not trying to sell all his wares), people might like him a lot better. He sounds like a used car salesman now--when he was younger and not married he was very different. As for Linda, there are videos on YouTube of her beating a half blind horse whose head was tied very close to a tree that didn't understand what she was "asking" it to do... because it couldn't see! She was slapping and punching him in the face!

So upsetting.

I really really like Clinton Anderson, Stacy Westfall, John Lyons, and Cris Cox. And of those my favorite is Clinton Anderson. He is straight to the point, easy to understand, and what he does works. Some people say he's rough but I don't think so at all. Watch horses play with each other in the pasture... now THAT is rough. But Clinton is never mean. He says, "Be as easy as possible and as firm as necessary." I love his videos. I own his three groundwork DVDs and they are discriptive and effective.

He also uses the worst horses he can find to show you what to do in his videos, not some super well-trained horse that makes everything look like a piece of cake. Well... he does use his own good horses for demonstrations but that's it. He also is open minded and willing to learn other new things (he never heard of a gaited horse until he came to the U.S., and he took the time to learn about them). He has had other horse trainers on his TV show doing things. (I like the ones where he has this really good trick horse trainer). I think Clinton Anderson is great at what he does!

Stacy Westfall is fun to watch, and I've learned from the others I've listed also.

Clicker training-- this works really well for my minis. And my dogs for that matter. My Walker wasn't trained with clickers.
     
    08-25-2012, 07:18 AM
  #37
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by HorseCrazyTeen    
I do not like Parelli! I tried doing Parelli once and had to listen to a bunch of mumbo-jumbo, test everything on people first, right brain-left brain garbage before he and Linda even got to the horses. (And in the videos it is mostly Linda and almost never Pat). I have heard that many of the horses they train have problems that can make them dangerous at times.

To be fair, Pat Parelli is a much better horseman than his wife, and in fact if he were the one giving the instructions (and not trying to sell all his wares), people might like him a lot better. He sounds like a used car salesman now--when he was younger and not married he was very different. As for Linda, there are videos on YouTube of her beating a half blind horse whose head was tied very close to a tree that didn't understand what she was "asking" it to do... because it couldn't see! She was slapping and punching him in the face!

So upsetting.

What's the video of Linda called? Is it youtube?
     
    08-25-2012, 10:26 PM
  #38
Yearling
Whoa, went to go find it for you and it's been removed from YouTube. I saw this from someone else's comments:

"I agree with katchkittie...and I am finished with Parelli...it all goes in the bin...natural horsemanship should be kind at all times and they are only in it for the money! Shame on you! The fact the video was removed from youtube says it all!!"

I will see if I can find that video elsewhere online. It used to be all over YouTube. It was SO sad to see that horse tied with its face to the tree, not seeing what she was doing or wanting, then watching her punch it in the face multiple times. I'm going to have to stop thinking about it right this minute before I boil over lol!
     
    08-25-2012, 10:44 PM
  #39
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by HorseCrazyTeen    
Whoa, went to go find it for you and it's been removed from YouTube. I saw this from someone else's comments:

"I agree with katchkittie...and I am finished with Parelli...it all goes in the bin...natural horsemanship should be kind at all times and they are only in it for the money! Shame on you! The fact the video was removed from youtube says it all!!"

I will see if I can find that video elsewhere online. It used to be all over YouTube. It was SO sad to see that horse tied with its face to the tree, not seeing what she was doing or wanting, then watching her punch it in the face multiple times. I'm going to have to stop thinking about it right this minute before I boil over lol!
I saw that video. She was smacking it around on the blindside and it had no clue what was happening and couldn't even see it coming. Though, it may have been a different video? I saw her trying to lunge it unsuccessfully. Her techniques weren't working because it was being lunged on the blind side, and she was frustrated becuase the horse wasnt responding, and so she shanked it around. I don't recall it being tied to a tree but that could have been later in the video, after I had turned it off.

It used to be on YouTube and then Parelli made a video in response to it (just typed words, nothing spoken).
     
    08-25-2012, 11:04 PM
  #40
Yearling
Wow, I went to go look for a video somewhere on the internet, but apparently the Parellis have their own internet police? I don't know, but they've all been removed so far as I can tell. There are plenty of articles and discussions, though. I did also see a video of Pat Parelli being really rough with a green horse--not abusive, per se, but not giving the horse a chance at all to get introduced to a bridle. He practically wrestled the creature and forced it on the confused guy. No wonder Parelli-trained horses are spooky, dangerous things.

Okay. Enough of this subject for me. :(
     

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