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Acquired a horse...know NOTHING and scared.

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        10-28-2013, 02:25 PM
      #41
    Showing
    Dilly, I agree that he's a very attractive horse and I can see why you're drawn to him, but I still suggest that you start with some lessons on a horse that is maybe a little more people friendly. I have no idea what your financial situation is like, but if you're able to afford it, you might look around for instructors in your area, especially since your SO doesn't seem interested in teaching you the proper way to handle a horse safely. While I'm sure you love him and he loves you, his suggestion of "You wanna mess with him? Tie him up and mess with him" is a good way to get a novice horse-handler hurt. With an instructor on a good lesson horse, you can learn the correct way to avoid injury and handle any one of a million unforeseen reactions that might happen.

    THEN, when you've got a good start and can confidently handle a horse on your own and handle most normal horse reactions, then you can get your guy evaluated by a trainer just to see where his training level is at. It is easy for us to make assumptions about horses just based on a few written sentences on the internet, but often those assumptions are all wrong. This horse may be completely unsafe for someone of your ability to handle or he may be the perfect gentleman who will be a great first horse for you to learn to handle and ride, but you won't be able to figure that out on your own and we can't figure it out on here. Your best bet is a hands on evaluation by a trainer. They can tell you what his initial training was like and whether there are any gaps in training that need corrected before you work with him.

    In spite of what Walkinthewalk said, not all Amish are "notorious" for mishandling their buggy horses, I am good friends with a lot of people in a good sized Amish community up in Kansas and they all treat their animals well regardless of whether they are a buggy or plow horse. No offense, Walkin, but generalized statements about how the Amish are these horrible abusive cruel people to their horses just tick me off. IME, there are good horsemen and bad horsemen, no different than anywhere else in the world, they just seem more prominent because they all have horses, not just a few of them like us "English". They seem to catch the brunt of the accusations because of "assumed" abuse and because they aren't around the net to defend themselves. Just because they use their horses as equipment instead of pets doesn't mean that they are abused. Lack of pampering and "loving" doesn't mean abuse either. IMHO, that's why most people who see Amish horses that are stand-offish automatically assume that they've been mistreated...because people are so used to those horses who follow people around and have their nose in your business all the time, anything less means that they haven't been treated "kindly".


    ANYWAY LOL, sorry for the rant, but I have many Amish friends and I know how they treat their animals and it just bothers me to see them clumped together in a stereotype, especially when they don't have internet and can't defend themselves.



    Dilly, the reason that I strongly suggest you get help from a trainer is because figuring it out for yourself is dangerous. Even learning from a very experienced horseman, I still learned a lot of lessons on my own...usually on the other side of a nasty fall, broken bone, concussion, or some other not-so-minor injury. I can't imagine trying to learn everything on my own. I probably never would have lived long enough to reach puberty LOL.
         
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        10-28-2013, 03:36 PM
      #42
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smrobs    
    In spite of what Walkinthewalk said, not all Amish are "notorious" for mishandling their buggy horses, I am good friends with a lot of people in a good sized Amish community up in Kansas and they all treat their animals well regardless of whether they are a buggy or plow horse. No offense, Walkin, but generalized statements about how the Amish are these horrible abusive cruel people to their horses just tick me off.
    No offense taken. It's always a relief to hear the other side. I was raised around the Amish and when I was an adult and moved to the next state over, there was an Amish community not 30 miles from me.

    Unfortunately the communities of my youth and my adulthood treated their buggy horses poorly. We also had a serious Strangles outbreak in my area because the Amish would not report it, let their horses die, and buried them in graves that were not deep enough for a diseased horse.

    It's why my horses had to get a Strangles vaccination.

    Then there's the pair of half brother SSH's my good friend and her DH bought a few years back. Both had been to the same Amish trainer for 30 days before my friends bought them. One had his tongue so nearly severed the vet was amazed it was still being held together by scar tissue. The other one came back blind in one eye. The Seller of the two horses was ready to throw up when he got them back; thankfully they're with my friend in a forever home and have great care.

    So from Ohio to PA to TN, I do not have any good experiences with the Amish men when it comes to working with riding horses

    I love the Amish women and will spend my last penny on their baked goods
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        10-28-2013, 05:19 PM
      #43
    Yearling
    I have to agree with Walkin. I know not ALL Amish are bad to horses, but many of them see them as tools to be used and replaced rather than livestock, and that has been my experience with them. My own draft cross mare was from an Amish community sold as a good solid horse, and came underweight and absolutely terrified of human contact. The man who bought her (my old barn owner) had to sit in the field with oats for hours to get her to even think about coming near. From what he told me he had a few horses from them (All related to my mare, we'd initially bought two and have since sold one) and every single one came in poor condition.

    Again, I know not all Amish are like this. But it really is a stereotype, and stereotypes do come from somewhere and usually with a grain of truth. There are those that are wonderful, of course - I'm very glad you know some, smrobs. I'd love to get to know an Amish community - it seems so interesting to me!
         
        10-28-2013, 06:25 PM
      #44
    Weanling
    Good luck firstly.
    I also "acquired" a pregnant mae last October. I'd rode over 25 years ago, then nothing until last year! She was my sons who for various reasons couldn't look after her.
    Overnight, I had to learn about nutrition, handling, mucking out and foaling.
    "My" mare is an OTTB, 15 years old and can be a grumpy cow but I love her!
    Last year, over winter, I was rugging her up in her stable when she swung her head round, hit me in my side, and winded me so bad. I was terrified! But having been on various forums and knowing the heirachy herd rules, I stood there, gave her a massive smack, grabbed her headcollar and made her stand in the middle of the stable whilst I carried in rugging her up and shouting loudly. She was an angel after that because i'd shown her I was in charge, but I admit, before that, I was too soft with her. I did know she respected a firm handler, but just didn't follow through until then!

    I think the petting can come later, firstly show them who's in charge. Be firm, consistent anzd get help. Your grumpy man (the horse lol) might surprise yoru.
    Sorry I don't have any better advice, like I said, i'm a novice too, but there's a wealth of information out there : and i'm sure people will be only too happy to help if you ask.
    I also have a long whip - our lovely little (i.e. Giant) foal started a habit of turning a kicking but a quick whack on the rump with the whip stopped him almost immediately and he doesn't even think to turn his bum to you now :)
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        10-28-2013, 07:41 PM
      #45
    Super Moderator
    Just keep it in mind that there are horses out there - especially abused ones - that have learnt to be defensive and hitting them can just unleash an even bigger monster than the one you already see.
    EvilHorseOfDoom likes this.
         
        10-28-2013, 10:46 PM
      #46
    Trained
    That the horse is being handled for foot care means that there is either enough training in the horse for a decent start or your partner is using all his experience to manipulate the horse effectively. That's what you have to find out. Could any other reasonably experienced horseperson safely lead and groom the horse? If yes, then you can be determined and keep him but you still need to go out and get experience with a trained horse or work with a trainer on this horse. If not, then it's back to the re-homing scenario.

    BTW, when you were scratching him, who decided the 5 minutes was up? You or the horse? Next time you get something like this going, stop and walk away before he does. You can always come back, but if he walks away first then he is still the power side.
         
        10-29-2013, 12:05 AM
      #47
    Foal
    Don't worry when I got my first horse I didn't know anything about them I was scared to even get on one wont lie my leg started shaking when they went faster than walking lol but it all becomes easy after a while.... my father in law has a horse like the one you described when I would go into his stall he would throw bites at me and even try to stomp me, im not a fan of a whip but every time he would do something I would whip him on the neck not hard but enough for him to understand that im the leader of the pack and not him....... took me like maybe a week and he stoped and gave up afterwards he started getting treats for good behavior and now anyone can go up to him and he will be as gentle as a marshmellow
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        10-29-2013, 07:40 AM
      #48
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NorthernMama    
    That the horse is being handled for foot care means that there is either enough training in the horse for a decent start or your partner is using all his experience to manipulate the horse effectively. That's what you have to find out. Could any other reasonably experienced horseperson safely lead and groom the horse? If yes, then you can be determined and keep him but you still need to go out and get experience with a trained horse or work with a trainer on this horse. If not, then it's back to the re-homing scenario.

    BTW, when you were scratching him, who decided the 5 minutes was up? You or the horse? Next time you get something like this going, stop and walk away before he does. You can always come back, but if he walks away first then he is still the power side.
    Hi NorthernMama, and thanks. He's NOT nuts and he's not a monster. (A couple posts have morphed him into a fire breathing dragon.) It's ME that's clueless and being manipulated. There's training there somewhere, he's just been turned out for a couple years. Tied, he gets antsy and wiggly, but he's able to take care of his feet and the vet is able to check him. I'm the doofus in the equation.

    When I was scratching him yesterday, I walked away first, per advice in one of the earlier posts. HATED it cause I wanted to maul him for being sweet, but I walked. NEAT thing is, he stayed! He watched me almost all the way back to the house. AND I didn't have apples with me!

    Probably hokey, lame, and minor, but I'm calling yesterday a win.
         
        10-29-2013, 09:17 AM
      #49
    Weanling
    Well done. I'd take him back to basics (with an experienced trainer at your side) and go slow. Gradually build his time being tied, small baby steps as too much will probably overwhelm him and stay safe xx I knew Fox wasn't a kicker or biter or rearer, just stubborn anddue to my being soft woth her (i'm used to petting dogs lol) thinking SHE was in charge so it was easier for me to tell her and bring her quickly back in line. Wear a hat in case he does rear on you and watch those legs and teeth. I bet once you enlist other help, your other half will be out there showing you how its done properly. :)
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        10-29-2013, 01:48 PM
      #50
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dilly    
    ...
    Probably hokey, lame, and minor, but I'm calling yesterday a win.
    That was a win! And that is what building your relationship is all about - small, seemingly, insignificant events that are the bricks in the foundation you're working on now.
         

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